Why do non-Mormoms post here?

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by peaceout2012 </p>\n<p>I\'m not trying to be rude. I\'m just curious as to why people who have never been member of the lds church feel the need to post on a recovery board. I guess I can understand a nevermo wife or husband. Please explain how you can relate to those of us trying to recover, vent, laugh, and move on. I know this sounds rude, but I really don\'t get it.</p>\n<p>Nightingale<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nMany nevermos live amongst Mormons and come here out of interest or curiosity. They may have questions about their observations of the religion and the people and they can find answers here.</p>\n<p>Some are interested in religion in general, Mormonism being one of the more interesting ones due to its unique beliefs and colourful founders (polite way of characterizing them).</p>\n<p>We\'ve had some great contributions here made by nevermos, who are always welcome. They can give a different perspective that many who have been lost in the Mormon bubble find enlightening.</p>\n<hr />\nMJ<br />\nAnd many that live among Mormons are very adversly affected.<br />\nGays living in Utah may have experienced some great harm because of the ingnorance of the Mormon dominated culture\n<hr />\ndelt1995<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nPeople who have mormon convert relatives, and or married mos and or live among mormons are puzzled by all of it.\n<hr />\nNeverMo in CA<br />\nI can only answer for myself, but here goes...<br />\nI\'m not sure I entirely get it myself...just the other day, in fact, I had posted something and then thought, \"I\'m not even an ex-Mormon, and it\'s not like I don\'t have a billion other things I need to be doing....\" It wasn\'t the first time that the thought has crossed my mind, either!\n<p>Anyway, in my case, I occasionally (maybe 3-4 times a year) used to visit this board and read a few posts because I have had an interest in all religions since I was very young (elementary school). However, I would read far more about Islam (including reading the Koran in various translations), Roman Catholicism (my own faith growing up), Buddhism, small Protestant sects or denominations, Wicca...you name it. I might visit RFM only if, say, some LDS missionaries had just stopped by my house, so Mormonism would briefly be on my mind.</p>\n<p>Then, about two years ago, I joined a local mothers\' club and very quickly befriended one of the first women whom I met there, who happened to be LDS. I mentioned during my first conversation with her that my mom was hoping we\'d have our children baptized Catholics, so that led to her asking some polite questions about Catholic baptism, etc. She also revealed that she was LDS. At first I thought, \"Uh-oh,\" only because I swear often and have a fairly ribald sense of humor, not to mention generally liberal political leanings, and I believed most Mormons to be quite conservative. However, this woman did not seem bothered by my swearing and, if anything, seemed to appreciate both my \"inappropriate\" jokes and comments and political views. I also found it extremely interesting/surprising that she is married to a NeverMo atheist, even though she is practicing LDS--weekly church attendance, garments, the works.</p>\n<p>In a nutshell, we hit it off and became pretty close friends quickly, in part because we have children the same ages, but mainly because we just liked each other a lot.</p>\n<p>Among the jokes we *both* would make during our friendship were sarcastic comments about religion--Catholicism as well as Mormonism. If anything, mainly because I certainly knew more about my own faith background than about hers, I made far more cracks about Catholicism--snarky remarks about pedophile priests, you name it. I truly do not think I ever said anything nearly as offensive about the LDS church or Mormons.</p>\n<p>However, around Christmastime of 2010, our club threw a party, which I truly did NOT want to attend except that this friend made a big deal about my coming...and that\'s the evening when things took, for me, an unexpected and unpleasant turn. I won\'t bore you with all the details here, but suffice to say that her husband, whom I had never spoken to previously for more than about 30 seconds to say \"Hi--nice to meet you,\" suddenly pulled me aside at this party and informed me, \"You know, when you make fun of a Mormon\'s faith, it\'s exactly the same as if you make fun of a black person for their skin color.\" If not verbatim, those were nearly his exact words.</p>\n<p>I was stunned, for many reasons, which are probably obvious. (No, her husband is not black--he is white, blonde, etc., as is my friend.) Worse, it was also obvious that my friend had put her hubby up to confronting me, although she later denied that. Initially, I was just saddened and shocked, but later, I was also angry about that. Okay, if a man truly feels his wife is being unfairly attacked, fine, I can understand and even admire his \"defending\" her, but I thought (and still do) that it was a bit pathetic that a college-educated, intelligent woman in her 30s had to get her husband to tell me off. Furthermore, as a college instructor who frequently teaches African-American slavery narratives as well as books about modern-day slavery of black Africans (the Sudan, etc.) in my classes, don\'t get me started on the whole LDS = blacks thing.</p>\n<p>I was so saddened and upset that when I got home that evening I visited RFM and posted a far longer and more detailed version of the above incident, mainly because I wanted to know if it was a common view among Mormons that they consider \"anti-Mormon\" bias as bad as racism toward blacks...the consensus seemed to be, \"Not all feel that way, but it is hardly an unknown view.\"</p>\n<p>Although I realized even then that my one unpleasant experience was NOTHING compared to what most people on this board have experienced with Mormonism, I genuinely appreciated the support and explanations I was given. They were tremendously helpful in my making sense of an incident I would otherwise have had to write off as my friend (whom I still care for) being simply insane or ridiculous. It\'s also helped me to understand some of her other comments and behaviors in the meantime, as well as some past encounters I\'ve had with other LDS members, with missionaries, and so on.</p>\n<p>Combine that with the frankly fascinating stuff I have learned here, not to mention Raptor Jesus\' writings, and, well, I was hooked.</p>\n<p>I completely understand why a NeverMo like me with such a tenuous connection to anything Mormon would not be welcomed here by some (or many), and I do not think your question is at all rude. I\'m just giving an answer. Hope it helps.</p>\n<hr />\ngrubbygert<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nthis might sound really weird but... i am addicted to the show \"hoarders\"\n<p>but i am not (nor have i ever been) a hoarder</p>\n<p>and i don\'t know any (at least i don\'t know if i know any...) hoarders</p>\n<p>but the show inspires me - just watching these people struggle with their situation and make steps to improve their lives inspires me - the fact that their problems are so physical might make it all the more easy for me to relate</p>\n<p>i suspect that something similar happens with the nevermos that post here - mormonism is an interesting topic to them for some reason or another and they choose to add their voice to the conversation... i\'m totally okay with that</p>\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI got into trouble about this one time, because I felt a few of the nevermos, but not most, were kind of condescending. When an ex-mo says Mormons are stupid, we all kind of nod our head, and say \"I know.\" When a nevermo says it, sometimes it feels like they are cutting a little too close to our own flesh. Since a lot of these Mormons are our own flesh and blood, it\'s a lot like having the sibling you always fight with. You want to kill them, but d--n if you will let anyone else try.\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'m so hooked on that show! I really want to understand what makes those people tick. My husband can\'t be in the same room when it\'s on.(we\'re both exmo\'s)<br />\nThat analogy helped me understand. Us exmo\'s are fascinating!</p>\n<hr />\nellenbee<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'m actually posting here for the first time as a never-mo, but I\'ve been reading on this site for years. I\'ve been fascinated by religion all my adult life, and especially Mormonism - probably because I went to school with many Mormon kids, and one set of cousins were raised Mormon because their mom, my dad\'s brother\'s wife, was raised as a Mormon. They all finally left the church in disgust.\n<p>My Mormon acquaintances in school were great students, very popular, attractive and truly nice. I always admired them because they seemed to have everything together.</p>\n<p>Coming here is a like opening a window into a hidden world that deeply interests me, but it also breaks my heart. The challenges that so many of the posters have gone through as they struggled with the church and its teachings has moved me and taught me a great deal about the resilience of the human spirit. I\'ve often looked back to my high school years and those Mormon friends, and wondered what was really going on in their lives and homes and behind their smiles.</p>\n<p>Plus, so many here are not only great writers, but are delightfully funny/snarky as they tell their stories. Can\'t resist it!</p>\n<hr />\nblueorchid<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nDo you know how hard it is to pass by a train wreck and not look?\n<hr />\nthingsithink<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'ve lived around it. It affected my life as I refused to convert for my fiancĂ© thus ending the relationship. I\'ve seen people in serious turmoil. Years ago I was the confidant for a handful of troubled mormons during my time in SLC. I was absolutely mystified that people would not discuss the religion. I was blown away at how normal mormons were yet how righteous they talked about being. By normal I mean I knew mormons married in the temple while having affairs, smoking weed, drinking beer - living the double life. But they still couldn\'t escape. By normal I mean that they were just as rude, thoughtless, selfish, and full of the normal problems of life as any other people I have been around, but mysteriously they acted and talked like they were better than others. I tripped.\n<p>When I stumbled across this board, it was so awesome to read posts by people who had been mormon talking about how crazy the whole thing is. I\'ve also learned its even crazier than I knew. Anytime a person can overcome something as insane and debilitating as mormonism, that person likely has some wisdom to offer up.</p>\n<hr />\nSL Cabbie<br />\nI Just Apostatized Kind of Young...<br />\nAs I\'ve said, you\'d never know I was Nevermo from my therapy issues (all my family is still on church rolls, although none is a believer).\n<p>Last year I had the privilege of picking up a customer and bringing up the subject of this site. He asked if was \"SL Cabbie,\" and paid me a huge compliment. He said comes here--doesn\'t post much--to understand his neighbors and find support.</p>\n<p>Certainly understandable...</p>\n<hr />\neldorado<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI first started, visiting after living in Utah county for 3yrs. I was debating on joining the church and decided to do some serious looking into the church. Being on here has helped me a lot in that I did not join the church, realized that I had not gone insane in Utah, it has helped me stick up for myself, really weird thing is that it has helped me with dealing with some crud from my childhood my Mom as much as I love her and as much as she is a wonderful parent and grandma now. Was kind of crazy growing up a lot of things that have been talked about on the board about women, abuse and sexuality I grew up with, our saving grace was that my Dad is one of the best human beings you will ever meet. I keep thinking my poor Mom was a TBM in her past life, with some of the things she came up with. So thanks you guys\n<p>Rose Park Ranger<br />\nI live in West Valley City. No, I\'m not in a gang<br />\nMaybe if you live in Park City, Rose Park (I used to live there) or maybe up by the U of U; you don\'t run into The Morg a lot.</p>\n<p>But if you live anywhere else in Utah, this board is pretty relevant.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Rebeckah<br />\nI originally came here researching Mormonism because I get obsessions with religions.<br />\nDuring that time a Mormon on another board challenged me to look at my own faith with the same critical thinking that I had examined, and rejected, his. I did and went from being a born again Christian (25 years) to an atheist. This board is welcoming and I love it here. Also, since I don\'t know of any \"recovery from born again Christianism\" boards, this place is as close to a support group as I\'m likely to get. (Even though my Christian experience wasn\'t much like Mormonism.)</p>\n<hr />\nelysiannevermo<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nMy Signifigant Other is a Mo. I read here and analyze the thought process. I will ask questions, comment when I get an aha moment. I have a lot of interest in religion on top of it. I have studied islam and some of the older religions and just find them fascinating.\n<p>I am sorry to intrude.</p>\n<hr />\nRebeckah<br />\nDon\'t worry, you don\'t intrude. :)&nbsp;\n<hr />\n<p>honestone<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nMy daughter converted to Mormonism after a long period of lovebombing. Actually this went on from 1999 to 2004. I feel like I know so much more about Mormons than many Mormons. I actually studied the religion as I saw the pressure they put on my daughter. And my daughter was brought up Protestant all her life.</p>\n<p>She told them to go away in \'02 and then let them back in her life in \'03 and by April \'04 told me she was going to get engaged soon. WHAT??? I recall saying to myself. 60 days long was her engagement. It was the most horrible period in my life. So I do hope you know many of us parents have to recover too....we have a site to go to and vent but it is not real active some weeks. In many ways we have lost our children to a cult. Hearing good stories here gives us hope.</p>\n<p>I come here to learn more....can never learn enough. And I love the stories of the converts who joined and gave it up later and all the BIC Mormons who have given it up. I now worry about my grandson who is soon to be 3 and they are brainwashing him. I hope you understand we can learn a lot on this board about how our children and grandchildren live their lives. Well, for now we learn how they live their life. I just think my daughter WILL figure out in time that she made a huge mistake. That will be one happy day!!!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Surrender Dorothy<br />\nI\'m a fan of our never-mo posters<br />\nI was away during that dust-up, forbiddencokedrinker, but I saw the threads after-the-fact and have had a similar reaction to one never-mo poster. Might be the same one.</p>\n<p>On the other hand, some of my favorite posters are never-mo\'s, and I think they (with the one exception) are very respectful in their posts. I shouldn\'t start naming names because I know I\'ll leave someone out that I meant to include but Summer, Rebeckah, Knothead, and BigNeverMo come to mind. As a BIC, the never-mo\'s provide a point-of-view that I value, and I appreciate the texture they bring to the conversation. I hope they keep posting and that other never-mo\'s who lurk feel welcome to post when they have something to contribute.</p>\n<p>Despite Mormonism having such a huge impact in many of our lives, the majority of people on this planet are never-mo\'s and reading their reactions to the weirdness that is Mormonism is entertaining and educational.</p>\n<p>Post on, nevermo\'s! Post on!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'ve always liked reading your posts honestone. Glad you\'re here.</p>\n<p>I like the nevermo contributions. You can\'t have too much perspective.</p>\n<hr />\nhonestone<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nThanks blueorchid.\n<hr />\nanagrammy<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI am interested in the Amish. If there were a recovery site for Amish (maybe there is???), I would totally be there. You don\'t have to have been a religion to be interested in an unusual point of view.\n<p>Nevermos are able to offer unvarnished advice from a non-brainwashed viewpoint--which is just wonderful for people recovering from indoctrination. I have often wondered what an ordinary person would think of x or y. I know I can come here and ask and receive the opinions of both those recovering from the intricate world of Mormon shame &amp; blame game and also those whose lives have never included it.</p>\n<p>This provides balance, in my opinion.</p>\n<p>Anagrammy</p>\n<hr />\nCheryl<br />\nInteraction with mormons for 2 or 3 days sometimes requires recovery.<br />\nI remember a doctor from France who posted here needing advice. He was in Arizona doing his residency.\n<p>A mishie on his bike was injured when ran into the doctor\'s car. The doc took the kid to the hospital emergency room and contacted the MP telling him about the accident and where to pick up the mangled bicycle.</p>\n<p>The MP yelled at him for getting emergency room treatment and was angry that they had admitted the mishie and put him in an expesive room to heal for a few days. He did send someone to pick up the bike and that\'s when the real trouble started. Mishies hounded the doc every day and sometimes twice trying to pressure him into taking discussions.</p>\n<p>Posters talked the doctor through this episode and supported him in his short lived recovery from the morg.</p>\n<p>I\'ll bet he still remembers and laughs at the way mormons acted when he was trying to help them and how instead of being grateful they were rude and then patronizing, intrusive, and overly aggressive.</p>\n<hr />\nanonanonanon<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nThere are really interesting people on RfM.\n<p>Some of them can change a Nevermo\'s life forever.</p>\n<hr />\nsummer<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI have a lifelong fascination with Mormonism that stemmed from having a good friend convert to the church in high school. This was during the Spencer Kimball era so I heard from her all of the FPS current at the time. I visited BYU and Temple Square with her. Was asked by a mishie if I didn\'t want to be married for eternity (at that point, I wasn\'t even sure I wanted to be married at all.) My friend and I had long discussions about the code of chastity and the WoW.\n<p>BYU was a revelation to me. There were so many clean-cut students (perhaps a little too clean-cut in my mind.) Where was the diversity? Why so many home ec/child study majors? I saw a variety show at the school, back when the Lamanite Generation was still active. I watched them thinking, what\'s a Lamanite? I saw students dating. Why is that attractive girl going out with that dweeby-looking guy? And why does he apparently think that he is God\'s gift to the female sex? What\'s a returned missionary, and why do they have special religion classes aimed mainly at them? So many questions, and not enough answers. I was staring perplexed at an entirely different culture, trying to sort it all out.</p>\n<p>That might have been the end of it except for the fact that my high school friend and I were both taking a comparative religions class at the time. With the instructor\'s permission, she brought in an introductory film about Mormonism. It was all in there -- modern prophets, Joseph Smith, the golden plates, the Urim and Thummin, the angel taking back the plates. I sat in the darkened room, slack-jawed. My friend had fallen for *this*?</p>\n<p>At the time, there was not a lot of material available for curious nevermos outside of the Morridor. I read what I could get my hands on. It was enough to confirm my worst fears for my friend.</p>\n<p>At the same time, I did understand the attractions of the church -- the emphasis on family and clean living, marriage, etc.</p>\n<p>She went off to BYU and I was at school the next state over, where along the way I had a Mormon roommate and a jackmo boyfriend from Utah. He eventually disengaged doctrinally from the church but was deeply affected by it in a negative manner for many years, much as people on the board have been. I am still in touch with him.</p>\n<p>I have other Mormon friends and acquaintances. In the past I have traveled to Utah on a regular basis and will do so again at some point in the future.</p>\n<p>I came here to understand more about Mormonism and how it has affected the people in my life. I learned a lot over my first few years here. Now I stay to give a nevermo point of view about Mormonism, to help people out where I can, and because I enjoy the people on this board.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Soft Machine<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI posted this on a similar topic a few days ago:</p>\n<p>\"Also a nervermo with no personal experience of Mormonism, but I got hooked on the people here, the debates and, yes, the stories (Stormy anyone ?)...</p>\n<p>I try to keep out of the way, mostly, only posting (I hope) when I\'ve something to say. As a nevermo, that rules out many LDS topics, but I learn a lot. Thanks to everyone involved! \"</p>\n<p>I\'d just like to add that (as so often) Anagrammy expressed what I hope I can occasionally contribute here:</p>\n<p>\"Nevermos are able to offer unvarnished advice from a non-brainwashed viewpoint--which is just wonderful for people recovering from indoctrination\"</p>\n<p>And, finally, I come here because I appreciate all you Exmos, who have proved to be intelligent, open-minded and friendly.</p>\n<p>By the way, any member of this board passing through Paris, France MUST contact me so that I can treat them to the beverage of their choice while they\'re here...</p>\n<p>All the best to all of you from</p>\n<p>Tom in Paris</p>\n<hr />\n<p>southern<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI post here because I am married to a wonderful man who is trying to find his path away from the LDS organization. He has progressed so far in the years before I met him, but now we are together and I want to help him any way I can. There is some slight Mormon influence on one side of my family but my mom successfully insulated us from it. So I know very little about it first hand except for what I have experienced with my husbands tbm family members. ExMormon has been an invaluable source of support as I try to understand the confusion and turmoil these Mormons cause in our lives on a regular basis... You just can\'t find honest perspectives like the ones here, anywhere else. I need to know what\'s really going on with Mormons, I\'m not savvy enough to read between the lines. This site helps me understand and protect my family.<br />\nI hope no one gets offended by anything ignorant I may ever post, I\'m really just an ignorant never mo who\'s scrambling not to fall in to a rabbit hole of craziness. At least that\'s how it feels to me!</p>\n<hr />\nknotheadusc<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'m a nevermo, but my husband is an exmo. And his kids are obnoxiously TBM.\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI think of you as an honory ex-Mormon. Just because the church hasn\'t dunked you yet (sorry they will probably get you after you are dead) doesn\'t mean they haven\'t found a way hurt you. I guess if the Church can condescendingly refer to someone as a dry Mormon, I can refer to you as a dry ex-mormon.\n<hr />\n<p>rainbowjello<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI think many can benefit from this site.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Chromesthesia<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI started reading ex-mormon stories because I\'m interested in other people\'s perspectives, the history of the Mormon church and because of Orson Scott Card.<br />\nMan, he annoys me. To think, I was such a big fan of his writing. I am ex-Seventh Day Adventist.<br />\nAnd let\'s face it, if Mormonism is a fraud, which it is, it needs to be exposed! I already was reading tons of books about women escaping from the FLDS.</p>\n<hr />\nNo Mo<br />\nThat one made me laugh.<br />\nI can\'t bring myself to post the LOL, but it made me laugh out loud.\n<hr />\nSoCalNevermo<br />\nMy own story<br />\nMy job took me to Utah for 11 years. Before that I knew almost nothing about the LDS but started to try to learn. My wandering eventually took me to this site where I have learned a lot but have also seen some misperceptions from the other side where ex-Mos say strange things about Christian denominations they know nothing about. I sometimes post a response if I think I can clear up some of that mud.\n<hr />\n<p>Twinker<br />\nI have the same 5-6 generation mormon history as TBMS<br />\nand many family members are dyed-in-the-wool Mormons.</p>\n<p>I grew up as one of the very few non-LDS in my small town. The damage to my self-esteem for being excluded and shunned reverberated for a long time.</p>\n<p>Having come here, I find I was no more damaged than some of you who are trying to escape the clutches.</p>\n<p>Also, reading here has given me greater pride in my wonderful, intelligent, strong Mother who resisted the pressures and encouraged her children to be independent thinkers.</p>\n<hr />\nspaghetti oh<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI\'m a nevermo and I came here because I had fallen in love with a mormon who suddenly dumped me. I didn\'t understand it because he was crazy about me too.\n<p>It was through this board that I learned about the family, peer and church pressure he was under to ditch the heathen woman (me). And reading this board helped me see the mormon in a different, more accurate, light. It was incredibly healing and educational for me.</p>\n<p>I don\'t pretend that I can relate to leaving moism but I can relate to certain aspects of the general recovery process. For instance, threads about \'setting boundaries\' have been very helpful for me because, although my family is not mormon, my family\'s understanding of boundaries is often similar to what I read here.</p>\n<p>I also find the people interesting and I have learned a lot about the US that I can\'t learn from a newpaper (I\'m Canadian).</p>\n<p>And where else would I have learned about fry sauce?! ;-)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>dominikki<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI found this website a couple of years ago and lurked for a very long time before I posted. I\'m not mormon but I was born and raised in Utah, and surrounded by them all my life and I married a mormon who has gone back and forth between following the \"rules\" to rebeling. I started posting during a time when DH got very rabid in his momon beleifs and started pressuring me (after being married for 12 years) to start going to church so we could get sealed in the temple. I found great support here and there were several people on this board who helped me get through this difficult time, and helped me articulate what I wanted to say to DH without coming off like I was attacking him.<br />\nI still read the board everyday, because I enjoy the people here very much. I post things occationally and try not to annoy or be a troll, though I discovered that sometimes I was by accident! I\'ve learned my lesson though and am trying to be a better poster!!!</p>\n<hr />\nPtLoma<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nGrowing up, my best friend in elementary and middle school was LDS. However, looking back with my \"further light and knowledge\", I now know that the family--while not Jack Mormons---were not \"temple Mormons\" either. Father had not done a mission, the couple was not sealed in a temple, etc. They went to church, participated, and that was it. Nearest temple was three hours away, and they didn\'t participate. So what I knew about Mormonism was limited to what this friend\'s family did. (Yes, we did save Mrs Butterworth syrup bottles so they could make pioneer dolls, but I digress).\n<p>Fast forward thirty years later, one of my patients asks if he can meet up to talk. He was an all-state football player and received a four year ride to a Catholic university (BYU did not recruit him). Now that he had completed sophomore year and was home for summer, the local LDS power structure was putting on the pressure for him to serve a mission. In his case, doing so would have canceled his scholarship, since this Catholic institution did not have any rubric or provision for their athletes taking two years off in their talent stream. His parents had serious financial problems (no fault of their own; his father lost a construction company during the post-Gulf War recession of 1990-93) and they could not afford to send him to college if he lost the scholarship.</p>\n<p>That\'s why he came to me. THe locals (more the leaders than his parents) wanted him to go on a mission, he did not want to go, and wanted me to sabotage his missionary medical application. Not easy to do for someone playing college football, but I found a loophole and it worked, he was rejected on medical grounds. (He has asthma and the public consumption version was that he was rejected due to asthma, but that is not the loophole I used).</p>\n<p>During our initial talk, I said, \"I don\'t see why you are so afraid of these people, why are you letting them intimidate you?\" His answer: \"If you ask a question like that, you\'re not Mormon, and you\'d have to be Mormon to understand the pressure and manipulation\".</p>\n<p>Not really knowing what he meant, I began to search Mormonism on the web, and promptly discovered this site plus others (Veilworker\'s site, Latter Day Lampoon, RIchard Packham\'s site) and soon learned what this young man was up against. I used information from exmormon.org to help him, and later referred him to this site. He was one of four children and three have formally resigned; mom is now 100% inactive. Since that time, I have referred people who wanted to resign to this site and was able to counsel them on how the process works (and to educate people that they have the right to resign rather than to be ex\'d----it\'s amazing how people have no concept of the process). I\'m not a frequent poster, but I read the board daily to keep up with what\'s new in TSCC---the information is helpful when people want to escape.</p>\n<p>As a side note, the mother of my childhood friend committed suicide when we were high school juniors, however the tragedy was covered up with a story that she had leukemia (I don\'t know if the family circulated the story or whether it just evolved). I learned twenty years after the event that she actually committed suicide. She had a genius level IQ but married at 17 and had four kids by age 21 (one set of twins; three pregnancies). Knowing what I know now about how women are treated in Mormondom, I partly blame TSCC for her death, and this site has helped me find closure, if not acceptance, for what happened (at least I now understand what made her tick).</p>\n<hr />\nPtLoma<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI agree. Anyone who had the courage and smarts to buck the cult has to be an interesting person to read.\n<hr />\nsmorg<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nNevermo here. Got interested in checking out Mormonism after running into a couple of missionaries and agreeing to talk to them. Never was in any danger of finding Mormonism plausible, but it fascinated me how the well spoken college educated (sister) missionaries were so taken by it and could talk perfect sense one moment (when not addressing religious stuff) and perfect nonsense the very next... without realizing how crazy they sound. :oP\n<p>I think that\'s the main hook for me. It alarms me when I see perfectly intelligent \'normal\' seeming people throw all reason away (or willfully twist it) in the name of some dogma. That Mitt Romney, one of the people who swears to that dogma, looks a shoe-in as the GOP presidential candidate sure doesn\'t help. I\'m an ex-evangelical Christian and I didn\'t like the GW Bush faith-based presidency. The more I look into Mormonism and how it controls its members, the tamer evangelical Christianity looks.... and that\'s very scary to me.</p>\n<p>Added to that, I really like one of the missionaries I still keep in touch with, and I\'d eat my hat if she isn\'t gay. So now I\'m concerned about the lass, too.</p>\n<p>So why hang out here sometimes? It\'s great to get to read the perspectives of those who had been in the Mormon church to get accurate info on many issues.</p>\n<p>And I think non-mo\'s can give good input sometimes since it is harder to remain objective when one has been injured by the church, I think... For example, while many exmos think that What Would You Do episode filmed in Utah a couple of weeks ago showed some true mormon colors to the public, as a nevermo I didn\'t see anything that made the mos\' reaction significantly different from nonmos\'. A lot of time exmos are very sensitive to certain mormon passive-aggressive behaviors that the general nonmo public wouldn\'t even notice in the first place (and wouldn\'t understand why you\'re making such a big deal out of little snubs... because we never had to endure endless treatment of that like you did). So it\'s a good thing this forum is open to everyone. The more the better, imho. :o)</p>\n<hr />\ndogzilla<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nAh. The \"My Mom is a Bitch\" phenomenon.\n<p>I insulted a friend\'s girlfriend once, to add on to what he\'d been ranting about. It was just a supportive comment that echoed his own words, but he didn\'t like it much. It didn\'t destroy the friendship or anything, but when I asked him, \"Wait a minute, you said the same thing yesterday, but it\'s not cool when I repeated it back to you today?\"</p>\n<p>He said, \"Yeah, well, I can call my mom a bitch and laugh. If you call my mom a bitch, I\'ll kick your ass.\"</p>\n<p>He was absolutely right. Perhaps some exmos feel we should get a corner on the bash mormons market, like we own the rants or something. I don\'t feel that way about nonmormons myself, I think their contributions here and on other fora are valuable for providing a real world perspective to those of us who have spent our entire lives inside the mormon bubble.</p>\n<hr />\nPtLoma<br />\nFamily Life/Child Development majors<br />\nWhen I ask TBMs about the high % of BYU women in this major, the standard response is \"so she can teach Home Ec if her husband dies or loses his job\". Problem is, virtually no schools teach Home Ec any more!!\n<hr />\nPtLoma<br />\nstanding up to the Mormon powers that be<br />\nShould mention that several years later, the father of the football player developed a life threatening complication in our hospital and required emergency surgery. He had a fine surgeon whom I\'d recommended. However, their bishop, who was a businessman with zero medical expertise, advised the family to transfer him to a similarly sized hospital thirty miles away where his brother-in-law was an anesthesiologist (none of the treatment team at my hospital was LDS).\n<p>The family sided with me and declined the bishop\'s advice. One of the daughters (now resigned) told me this on the side to alert me to the degree of pressure to which the family was being subjected. Any reader here who knows how cheeky it is to decline the bishop\'s advice knows what I\'m talking about, and this is California. Although LDS clearly don\'t dominate daily life here, sometimes the bishopric pressure can be just as intense, particularly since one has to actively seek LDS professionals (doctors, attorneys, etc) since they are a small minority. In Utah, the chances would be much greater that at least some of a patient\'s doctors would be LDS.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>scarecrowfromoz<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\n1. I live in UT among Mormons and work with them.</p>\n<p>2. Utah is a theocracy and I need to learn how/why they govern as they do.</p>\n<p>3. I have relatives that converted. Some show signs they are not happy in the Morg (although I don\'t think they realize the Morg is the source of their unhappiness) and if any ever decide to leave, and I want to know how to support them and have an idea of what to say and not say.</p>\n<p>4. Not to fuel Morg beliefs of \"us against the world\" but there is the old saying of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Not that I consider members enemies, but more like the crazy neighbor living next door that you are friendly with, but when they are out chopping wood and invite you to go into their basement with them while they are still carrying the ax, you say no.</p>\n<p>5. I hate the divisive \"Days of 47\" in the summer that is a state holiday. Pick a day like the day of statehood (does anyone in UT even know when that is?) that everyone can celebrate, rather than a day honoring members of one religion. I now understand why some Native Americans protest Columbus Day. If the Mormon church wants to celebrate the days of 47 I have no problem. Just don\'t make it a state holiday.</p>\n<hr />\nsummer kites<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI sometimes post here because my husband is a mormon. His exwife is a TBM in Utah. She believes that all non-mormons are pitiful degenerates. She doesn\'t think much of mormons outside of Utah either. She has made the comment \"There are no good people outside of Utah.\" ( she is also a textbook narcissist and when her behavior sent him to the hospital with extreme stress and anxiety, to which she had no sympathy, the marriage came to an end ).\n<p>Since being married to my husband, I\'ve seen how the mormon church has messed with him emotionally. I\'ve also had mormons treat me like I was immoral and a bad influence on my husband. These judgement are made before they even get to know me as a person. It\'s simply because I\'m not a member.</p>\n<p>I come here because I can relate to the stories about exmormons/nevermos, etc. being treated poorly within the mormon culture.<br />\nThis is basically the only place where I can feel free to talk about my frustrations. Because even though my husband is inactive, he still gets very defensive about the church if I or anyone else has a complaint about it.</p>\n<hr />\nomreven<br />\nRe: why do Nevermo\'s post here?<br />\nI married a Jackmo and the in-laws are TBM plus we have a lot of Mormon population out here. I found this board researching Mormonism. It\'s a fast board with a lot of interesting things to say and a lot of different points of view. It keeps me current on Mormon topics, but also the wisdom and experiences shared here are useful even in nonMormon situations. When I post, I hope my nevermo point of view is useful. And of course reading here helps me to understand some of the stuff Mormons/exMormons go though and I feel like it\'s a safe place to discuss some of the negative stuff you encounter, which you may not be able to discuss in person. I\'ve pointed people here and some of the other exMormon boards if they\'re interested in learning more. I\'m glad this board is here.\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493507655, expire = 1493594055, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:25bc5f867ac5a4305ebeb305193b53bf' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by peaceout2012

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just curious as to why people who have never been member of the lds church feel the need to post on a recovery board. I guess I can understand a nevermo wife or husband. Please explain how you can relate to those of us trying to recover, vent, laugh, and move on. I know this sounds rude, but I really don't get it.

Nightingale
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Many nevermos live amongst Mormons and come here out of interest or curiosity. They may have questions about their observations of the religion and the people and they can find answers here.

Some are interested in religion in general, Mormonism being one of the more interesting ones due to its unique beliefs and colourful founders (polite way of characterizing them).

We've had some great contributions here made by nevermos, who are always welcome. They can give a different perspective that many who have been lost in the Mormon bubble find enlightening.


MJ
And many that live among Mormons are very adversly affected.
Gays living in Utah may have experienced some great harm because of the ingnorance of the Mormon dominated culture
delt1995
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
People who have mormon convert relatives, and or married mos and or live among mormons are puzzled by all of it.
NeverMo in CA
I can only answer for myself, but here goes...
I'm not sure I entirely get it myself...just the other day, in fact, I had posted something and then thought, "I'm not even an ex-Mormon, and it's not like I don't have a billion other things I need to be doing...." It wasn't the first time that the thought has crossed my mind, either!

Anyway, in my case, I occasionally (maybe 3-4 times a year) used to visit this board and read a few posts because I have had an interest in all religions since I was very young (elementary school). However, I would read far more about Islam (including reading the Koran in various translations), Roman Catholicism (my own faith growing up), Buddhism, small Protestant sects or denominations, Wicca...you name it. I might visit RFM only if, say, some LDS missionaries had just stopped by my house, so Mormonism would briefly be on my mind.

Then, about two years ago, I joined a local mothers' club and very quickly befriended one of the first women whom I met there, who happened to be LDS. I mentioned during my first conversation with her that my mom was hoping we'd have our children baptized Catholics, so that led to her asking some polite questions about Catholic baptism, etc. She also revealed that she was LDS. At first I thought, "Uh-oh," only because I swear often and have a fairly ribald sense of humor, not to mention generally liberal political leanings, and I believed most Mormons to be quite conservative. However, this woman did not seem bothered by my swearing and, if anything, seemed to appreciate both my "inappropriate" jokes and comments and political views. I also found it extremely interesting/surprising that she is married to a NeverMo atheist, even though she is practicing LDS--weekly church attendance, garments, the works.

In a nutshell, we hit it off and became pretty close friends quickly, in part because we have children the same ages, but mainly because we just liked each other a lot.

Among the jokes we *both* would make during our friendship were sarcastic comments about religion--Catholicism as well as Mormonism. If anything, mainly because I certainly knew more about my own faith background than about hers, I made far more cracks about Catholicism--snarky remarks about pedophile priests, you name it. I truly do not think I ever said anything nearly as offensive about the LDS church or Mormons.

However, around Christmastime of 2010, our club threw a party, which I truly did NOT want to attend except that this friend made a big deal about my coming...and that's the evening when things took, for me, an unexpected and unpleasant turn. I won't bore you with all the details here, but suffice to say that her husband, whom I had never spoken to previously for more than about 30 seconds to say "Hi--nice to meet you," suddenly pulled me aside at this party and informed me, "You know, when you make fun of a Mormon's faith, it's exactly the same as if you make fun of a black person for their skin color." If not verbatim, those were nearly his exact words.

I was stunned, for many reasons, which are probably obvious. (No, her husband is not black--he is white, blonde, etc., as is my friend.) Worse, it was also obvious that my friend had put her hubby up to confronting me, although she later denied that. Initially, I was just saddened and shocked, but later, I was also angry about that. Okay, if a man truly feels his wife is being unfairly attacked, fine, I can understand and even admire his "defending" her, but I thought (and still do) that it was a bit pathetic that a college-educated, intelligent woman in her 30s had to get her husband to tell me off. Furthermore, as a college instructor who frequently teaches African-American slavery narratives as well as books about modern-day slavery of black Africans (the Sudan, etc.) in my classes, don't get me started on the whole LDS = blacks thing.

I was so saddened and upset that when I got home that evening I visited RFM and posted a far longer and more detailed version of the above incident, mainly because I wanted to know if it was a common view among Mormons that they consider "anti-Mormon" bias as bad as racism toward blacks...the consensus seemed to be, "Not all feel that way, but it is hardly an unknown view."

Although I realized even then that my one unpleasant experience was NOTHING compared to what most people on this board have experienced with Mormonism, I genuinely appreciated the support and explanations I was given. They were tremendously helpful in my making sense of an incident I would otherwise have had to write off as my friend (whom I still care for) being simply insane or ridiculous. It's also helped me to understand some of her other comments and behaviors in the meantime, as well as some past encounters I've had with other LDS members, with missionaries, and so on.

Combine that with the frankly fascinating stuff I have learned here, not to mention Raptor Jesus' writings, and, well, I was hooked.

I completely understand why a NeverMo like me with such a tenuous connection to anything Mormon would not be welcomed here by some (or many), and I do not think your question is at all rude. I'm just giving an answer. Hope it helps.


grubbygert
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
this might sound really weird but... i am addicted to the show "hoarders"

but i am not (nor have i ever been) a hoarder

and i don't know any (at least i don't know if i know any...) hoarders

but the show inspires me - just watching these people struggle with their situation and make steps to improve their lives inspires me - the fact that their problems are so physical might make it all the more easy for me to relate

i suspect that something similar happens with the nevermos that post here - mormonism is an interesting topic to them for some reason or another and they choose to add their voice to the conversation... i'm totally okay with that


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I got into trouble about this one time, because I felt a few of the nevermos, but not most, were kind of condescending. When an ex-mo says Mormons are stupid, we all kind of nod our head, and say "I know." When a nevermo says it, sometimes it feels like they are cutting a little too close to our own flesh. Since a lot of these Mormons are our own flesh and blood, it's a lot like having the sibling you always fight with. You want to kill them, but d--n if you will let anyone else try.

Mia
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I'm so hooked on that show! I really want to understand what makes those people tick. My husband can't be in the same room when it's on.(we're both exmo's)
That analogy helped me understand. Us exmo's are fascinating!


ellenbee
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I'm actually posting here for the first time as a never-mo, but I've been reading on this site for years. I've been fascinated by religion all my adult life, and especially Mormonism - probably because I went to school with many Mormon kids, and one set of cousins were raised Mormon because their mom, my dad's brother's wife, was raised as a Mormon. They all finally left the church in disgust.

My Mormon acquaintances in school were great students, very popular, attractive and truly nice. I always admired them because they seemed to have everything together.

Coming here is a like opening a window into a hidden world that deeply interests me, but it also breaks my heart. The challenges that so many of the posters have gone through as they struggled with the church and its teachings has moved me and taught me a great deal about the resilience of the human spirit. I've often looked back to my high school years and those Mormon friends, and wondered what was really going on in their lives and homes and behind their smiles.

Plus, so many here are not only great writers, but are delightfully funny/snarky as they tell their stories. Can't resist it!


blueorchid
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Do you know how hard it is to pass by a train wreck and not look?
thingsithink
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I've lived around it. It affected my life as I refused to convert for my fiancé thus ending the relationship. I've seen people in serious turmoil. Years ago I was the confidant for a handful of troubled mormons during my time in SLC. I was absolutely mystified that people would not discuss the religion. I was blown away at how normal mormons were yet how righteous they talked about being. By normal I mean I knew mormons married in the temple while having affairs, smoking weed, drinking beer - living the double life. But they still couldn't escape. By normal I mean that they were just as rude, thoughtless, selfish, and full of the normal problems of life as any other people I have been around, but mysteriously they acted and talked like they were better than others. I tripped.

When I stumbled across this board, it was so awesome to read posts by people who had been mormon talking about how crazy the whole thing is. I've also learned its even crazier than I knew. Anytime a person can overcome something as insane and debilitating as mormonism, that person likely has some wisdom to offer up.


SL Cabbie
I Just Apostatized Kind of Young...
As I've said, you'd never know I was Nevermo from my therapy issues (all my family is still on church rolls, although none is a believer).

Last year I had the privilege of picking up a customer and bringing up the subject of this site. He asked if was "SL Cabbie," and paid me a huge compliment. He said comes here--doesn't post much--to understand his neighbors and find support.

Certainly understandable...


eldorado
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I first started, visiting after living in Utah county for 3yrs. I was debating on joining the church and decided to do some serious looking into the church. Being on here has helped me a lot in that I did not join the church, realized that I had not gone insane in Utah, it has helped me stick up for myself, really weird thing is that it has helped me with dealing with some crud from my childhood my Mom as much as I love her and as much as she is a wonderful parent and grandma now. Was kind of crazy growing up a lot of things that have been talked about on the board about women, abuse and sexuality I grew up with, our saving grace was that my Dad is one of the best human beings you will ever meet. I keep thinking my poor Mom was a TBM in her past life, with some of the things she came up with. So thanks you guys

Rose Park Ranger
I live in West Valley City. No, I'm not in a gang
Maybe if you live in Park City, Rose Park (I used to live there) or maybe up by the U of U; you don't run into The Morg a lot.

But if you live anywhere else in Utah, this board is pretty relevant.


Rebeckah
I originally came here researching Mormonism because I get obsessions with religions.
During that time a Mormon on another board challenged me to look at my own faith with the same critical thinking that I had examined, and rejected, his. I did and went from being a born again Christian (25 years) to an atheist. This board is welcoming and I love it here. Also, since I don't know of any "recovery from born again Christianism" boards, this place is as close to a support group as I'm likely to get. (Even though my Christian experience wasn't much like Mormonism.)


elysiannevermo
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
My Signifigant Other is a Mo. I read here and analyze the thought process. I will ask questions, comment when I get an aha moment. I have a lot of interest in religion on top of it. I have studied islam and some of the older religions and just find them fascinating.

I am sorry to intrude.


Rebeckah
Don't worry, you don't intrude. :) 

honestone
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
My daughter converted to Mormonism after a long period of lovebombing. Actually this went on from 1999 to 2004. I feel like I know so much more about Mormons than many Mormons. I actually studied the religion as I saw the pressure they put on my daughter. And my daughter was brought up Protestant all her life.

She told them to go away in '02 and then let them back in her life in '03 and by April '04 told me she was going to get engaged soon. WHAT??? I recall saying to myself. 60 days long was her engagement. It was the most horrible period in my life. So I do hope you know many of us parents have to recover too....we have a site to go to and vent but it is not real active some weeks. In many ways we have lost our children to a cult. Hearing good stories here gives us hope.

I come here to learn more....can never learn enough. And I love the stories of the converts who joined and gave it up later and all the BIC Mormons who have given it up. I now worry about my grandson who is soon to be 3 and they are brainwashing him. I hope you understand we can learn a lot on this board about how our children and grandchildren live their lives. Well, for now we learn how they live their life. I just think my daughter WILL figure out in time that she made a huge mistake. That will be one happy day!!!


Surrender Dorothy
I'm a fan of our never-mo posters
I was away during that dust-up, forbiddencokedrinker, but I saw the threads after-the-fact and have had a similar reaction to one never-mo poster. Might be the same one.

On the other hand, some of my favorite posters are never-mo's, and I think they (with the one exception) are very respectful in their posts. I shouldn't start naming names because I know I'll leave someone out that I meant to include but Summer, Rebeckah, Knothead, and BigNeverMo come to mind. As a BIC, the never-mo's provide a point-of-view that I value, and I appreciate the texture they bring to the conversation. I hope they keep posting and that other never-mo's who lurk feel welcome to post when they have something to contribute.

Despite Mormonism having such a huge impact in many of our lives, the majority of people on this planet are never-mo's and reading their reactions to the weirdness that is Mormonism is entertaining and educational.

Post on, nevermo's! Post on!


blueorchid
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I've always liked reading your posts honestone. Glad you're here.

I like the nevermo contributions. You can't have too much perspective.


honestone
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Thanks blueorchid.
anagrammy
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I am interested in the Amish. If there were a recovery site for Amish (maybe there is???), I would totally be there. You don't have to have been a religion to be interested in an unusual point of view.

Nevermos are able to offer unvarnished advice from a non-brainwashed viewpoint--which is just wonderful for people recovering from indoctrination. I have often wondered what an ordinary person would think of x or y. I know I can come here and ask and receive the opinions of both those recovering from the intricate world of Mormon shame & blame game and also those whose lives have never included it.

This provides balance, in my opinion.

Anagrammy


Cheryl
Interaction with mormons for 2 or 3 days sometimes requires recovery.
I remember a doctor from France who posted here needing advice. He was in Arizona doing his residency.

A mishie on his bike was injured when ran into the doctor's car. The doc took the kid to the hospital emergency room and contacted the MP telling him about the accident and where to pick up the mangled bicycle.

The MP yelled at him for getting emergency room treatment and was angry that they had admitted the mishie and put him in an expesive room to heal for a few days. He did send someone to pick up the bike and that's when the real trouble started. Mishies hounded the doc every day and sometimes twice trying to pressure him into taking discussions.

Posters talked the doctor through this episode and supported him in his short lived recovery from the morg.

I'll bet he still remembers and laughs at the way mormons acted when he was trying to help them and how instead of being grateful they were rude and then patronizing, intrusive, and overly aggressive.


anonanonanon
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
There are really interesting people on RfM.

Some of them can change a Nevermo's life forever.


summer
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I have a lifelong fascination with Mormonism that stemmed from having a good friend convert to the church in high school. This was during the Spencer Kimball era so I heard from her all of the FPS current at the time. I visited BYU and Temple Square with her. Was asked by a mishie if I didn't want to be married for eternity (at that point, I wasn't even sure I wanted to be married at all.) My friend and I had long discussions about the code of chastity and the WoW.

BYU was a revelation to me. There were so many clean-cut students (perhaps a little too clean-cut in my mind.) Where was the diversity? Why so many home ec/child study majors? I saw a variety show at the school, back when the Lamanite Generation was still active. I watched them thinking, what's a Lamanite? I saw students dating. Why is that attractive girl going out with that dweeby-looking guy? And why does he apparently think that he is God's gift to the female sex? What's a returned missionary, and why do they have special religion classes aimed mainly at them? So many questions, and not enough answers. I was staring perplexed at an entirely different culture, trying to sort it all out.

That might have been the end of it except for the fact that my high school friend and I were both taking a comparative religions class at the time. With the instructor's permission, she brought in an introductory film about Mormonism. It was all in there -- modern prophets, Joseph Smith, the golden plates, the Urim and Thummin, the angel taking back the plates. I sat in the darkened room, slack-jawed. My friend had fallen for *this*?

At the time, there was not a lot of material available for curious nevermos outside of the Morridor. I read what I could get my hands on. It was enough to confirm my worst fears for my friend.

At the same time, I did understand the attractions of the church -- the emphasis on family and clean living, marriage, etc.

She went off to BYU and I was at school the next state over, where along the way I had a Mormon roommate and a jackmo boyfriend from Utah. He eventually disengaged doctrinally from the church but was deeply affected by it in a negative manner for many years, much as people on the board have been. I am still in touch with him.

I have other Mormon friends and acquaintances. In the past I have traveled to Utah on a regular basis and will do so again at some point in the future.

I came here to understand more about Mormonism and how it has affected the people in my life. I learned a lot over my first few years here. Now I stay to give a nevermo point of view about Mormonism, to help people out where I can, and because I enjoy the people on this board.


Soft Machine
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I posted this on a similar topic a few days ago:

"Also a nervermo with no personal experience of Mormonism, but I got hooked on the people here, the debates and, yes, the stories (Stormy anyone ?)...

I try to keep out of the way, mostly, only posting (I hope) when I've something to say. As a nevermo, that rules out many LDS topics, but I learn a lot. Thanks to everyone involved! "

I'd just like to add that (as so often) Anagrammy expressed what I hope I can occasionally contribute here:

"Nevermos are able to offer unvarnished advice from a non-brainwashed viewpoint--which is just wonderful for people recovering from indoctrination"

And, finally, I come here because I appreciate all you Exmos, who have proved to be intelligent, open-minded and friendly.

By the way, any member of this board passing through Paris, France MUST contact me so that I can treat them to the beverage of their choice while they're here...

All the best to all of you from

Tom in Paris


southern
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I post here because I am married to a wonderful man who is trying to find his path away from the LDS organization. He has progressed so far in the years before I met him, but now we are together and I want to help him any way I can. There is some slight Mormon influence on one side of my family but my mom successfully insulated us from it. So I know very little about it first hand except for what I have experienced with my husbands tbm family members. ExMormon has been an invaluable source of support as I try to understand the confusion and turmoil these Mormons cause in our lives on a regular basis... You just can't find honest perspectives like the ones here, anywhere else. I need to know what's really going on with Mormons, I'm not savvy enough to read between the lines. This site helps me understand and protect my family.
I hope no one gets offended by anything ignorant I may ever post, I'm really just an ignorant never mo who's scrambling not to fall in to a rabbit hole of craziness. At least that's how it feels to me!


knotheadusc
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I'm a nevermo, but my husband is an exmo. And his kids are obnoxiously TBM.
forbiddencokedrinker
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I think of you as an honory ex-Mormon. Just because the church hasn't dunked you yet (sorry they will probably get you after you are dead) doesn't mean they haven't found a way hurt you. I guess if the Church can condescendingly refer to someone as a dry Mormon, I can refer to you as a dry ex-mormon.

rainbowjello
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I think many can benefit from this site.


Chromesthesia
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I started reading ex-mormon stories because I'm interested in other people's perspectives, the history of the Mormon church and because of Orson Scott Card.
Man, he annoys me. To think, I was such a big fan of his writing. I am ex-Seventh Day Adventist.
And let's face it, if Mormonism is a fraud, which it is, it needs to be exposed! I already was reading tons of books about women escaping from the FLDS.


No Mo
That one made me laugh.
I can't bring myself to post the LOL, but it made me laugh out loud.
SoCalNevermo
My own story
My job took me to Utah for 11 years. Before that I knew almost nothing about the LDS but started to try to learn. My wandering eventually took me to this site where I have learned a lot but have also seen some misperceptions from the other side where ex-Mos say strange things about Christian denominations they know nothing about. I sometimes post a response if I think I can clear up some of that mud.

Twinker
I have the same 5-6 generation mormon history as TBMS
and many family members are dyed-in-the-wool Mormons.

I grew up as one of the very few non-LDS in my small town. The damage to my self-esteem for being excluded and shunned reverberated for a long time.

Having come here, I find I was no more damaged than some of you who are trying to escape the clutches.

Also, reading here has given me greater pride in my wonderful, intelligent, strong Mother who resisted the pressures and encouraged her children to be independent thinkers.


spaghetti oh
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I'm a nevermo and I came here because I had fallen in love with a mormon who suddenly dumped me. I didn't understand it because he was crazy about me too.

It was through this board that I learned about the family, peer and church pressure he was under to ditch the heathen woman (me). And reading this board helped me see the mormon in a different, more accurate, light. It was incredibly healing and educational for me.

I don't pretend that I can relate to leaving moism but I can relate to certain aspects of the general recovery process. For instance, threads about 'setting boundaries' have been very helpful for me because, although my family is not mormon, my family's understanding of boundaries is often similar to what I read here.

I also find the people interesting and I have learned a lot about the US that I can't learn from a newpaper (I'm Canadian).

And where else would I have learned about fry sauce?! ;-)


dominikki
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I found this website a couple of years ago and lurked for a very long time before I posted. I'm not mormon but I was born and raised in Utah, and surrounded by them all my life and I married a mormon who has gone back and forth between following the "rules" to rebeling. I started posting during a time when DH got very rabid in his momon beleifs and started pressuring me (after being married for 12 years) to start going to church so we could get sealed in the temple. I found great support here and there were several people on this board who helped me get through this difficult time, and helped me articulate what I wanted to say to DH without coming off like I was attacking him.
I still read the board everyday, because I enjoy the people here very much. I post things occationally and try not to annoy or be a troll, though I discovered that sometimes I was by accident! I've learned my lesson though and am trying to be a better poster!!!


PtLoma
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Growing up, my best friend in elementary and middle school was LDS. However, looking back with my "further light and knowledge", I now know that the family--while not Jack Mormons---were not "temple Mormons" either. Father had not done a mission, the couple was not sealed in a temple, etc. They went to church, participated, and that was it. Nearest temple was three hours away, and they didn't participate. So what I knew about Mormonism was limited to what this friend's family did. (Yes, we did save Mrs Butterworth syrup bottles so they could make pioneer dolls, but I digress).

Fast forward thirty years later, one of my patients asks if he can meet up to talk. He was an all-state football player and received a four year ride to a Catholic university (BYU did not recruit him). Now that he had completed sophomore year and was home for summer, the local LDS power structure was putting on the pressure for him to serve a mission. In his case, doing so would have canceled his scholarship, since this Catholic institution did not have any rubric or provision for their athletes taking two years off in their talent stream. His parents had serious financial problems (no fault of their own; his father lost a construction company during the post-Gulf War recession of 1990-93) and they could not afford to send him to college if he lost the scholarship.

That's why he came to me. THe locals (more the leaders than his parents) wanted him to go on a mission, he did not want to go, and wanted me to sabotage his missionary medical application. Not easy to do for someone playing college football, but I found a loophole and it worked, he was rejected on medical grounds. (He has asthma and the public consumption version was that he was rejected due to asthma, but that is not the loophole I used).

During our initial talk, I said, "I don't see why you are so afraid of these people, why are you letting them intimidate you?" His answer: "If you ask a question like that, you're not Mormon, and you'd have to be Mormon to understand the pressure and manipulation".

Not really knowing what he meant, I began to search Mormonism on the web, and promptly discovered this site plus others (Veilworker's site, Latter Day Lampoon, RIchard Packham's site) and soon learned what this young man was up against. I used information from exmormon.org to help him, and later referred him to this site. He was one of four children and three have formally resigned; mom is now 100% inactive. Since that time, I have referred people who wanted to resign to this site and was able to counsel them on how the process works (and to educate people that they have the right to resign rather than to be ex'd----it's amazing how people have no concept of the process). I'm not a frequent poster, but I read the board daily to keep up with what's new in TSCC---the information is helpful when people want to escape.

As a side note, the mother of my childhood friend committed suicide when we were high school juniors, however the tragedy was covered up with a story that she had leukemia (I don't know if the family circulated the story or whether it just evolved). I learned twenty years after the event that she actually committed suicide. She had a genius level IQ but married at 17 and had four kids by age 21 (one set of twins; three pregnancies). Knowing what I know now about how women are treated in Mormondom, I partly blame TSCC for her death, and this site has helped me find closure, if not acceptance, for what happened (at least I now understand what made her tick).


PtLoma
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I agree. Anyone who had the courage and smarts to buck the cult has to be an interesting person to read.
smorg
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Nevermo here. Got interested in checking out Mormonism after running into a couple of missionaries and agreeing to talk to them. Never was in any danger of finding Mormonism plausible, but it fascinated me how the well spoken college educated (sister) missionaries were so taken by it and could talk perfect sense one moment (when not addressing religious stuff) and perfect nonsense the very next... without realizing how crazy they sound. :oP

I think that's the main hook for me. It alarms me when I see perfectly intelligent 'normal' seeming people throw all reason away (or willfully twist it) in the name of some dogma. That Mitt Romney, one of the people who swears to that dogma, looks a shoe-in as the GOP presidential candidate sure doesn't help. I'm an ex-evangelical Christian and I didn't like the GW Bush faith-based presidency. The more I look into Mormonism and how it controls its members, the tamer evangelical Christianity looks.... and that's very scary to me.

Added to that, I really like one of the missionaries I still keep in touch with, and I'd eat my hat if she isn't gay. So now I'm concerned about the lass, too.

So why hang out here sometimes? It's great to get to read the perspectives of those who had been in the Mormon church to get accurate info on many issues.

And I think non-mo's can give good input sometimes since it is harder to remain objective when one has been injured by the church, I think... For example, while many exmos think that What Would You Do episode filmed in Utah a couple of weeks ago showed some true mormon colors to the public, as a nevermo I didn't see anything that made the mos' reaction significantly different from nonmos'. A lot of time exmos are very sensitive to certain mormon passive-aggressive behaviors that the general nonmo public wouldn't even notice in the first place (and wouldn't understand why you're making such a big deal out of little snubs... because we never had to endure endless treatment of that like you did). So it's a good thing this forum is open to everyone. The more the better, imho. :o)


dogzilla
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
Ah. The "My Mom is a Bitch" phenomenon.

I insulted a friend's girlfriend once, to add on to what he'd been ranting about. It was just a supportive comment that echoed his own words, but he didn't like it much. It didn't destroy the friendship or anything, but when I asked him, "Wait a minute, you said the same thing yesterday, but it's not cool when I repeated it back to you today?"

He said, "Yeah, well, I can call my mom a bitch and laugh. If you call my mom a bitch, I'll kick your ass."

He was absolutely right. Perhaps some exmos feel we should get a corner on the bash mormons market, like we own the rants or something. I don't feel that way about nonmormons myself, I think their contributions here and on other fora are valuable for providing a real world perspective to those of us who have spent our entire lives inside the mormon bubble.


PtLoma
Family Life/Child Development majors
When I ask TBMs about the high % of BYU women in this major, the standard response is "so she can teach Home Ec if her husband dies or loses his job". Problem is, virtually no schools teach Home Ec any more!!
PtLoma
standing up to the Mormon powers that be
Should mention that several years later, the father of the football player developed a life threatening complication in our hospital and required emergency surgery. He had a fine surgeon whom I'd recommended. However, their bishop, who was a businessman with zero medical expertise, advised the family to transfer him to a similarly sized hospital thirty miles away where his brother-in-law was an anesthesiologist (none of the treatment team at my hospital was LDS).

The family sided with me and declined the bishop's advice. One of the daughters (now resigned) told me this on the side to alert me to the degree of pressure to which the family was being subjected. Any reader here who knows how cheeky it is to decline the bishop's advice knows what I'm talking about, and this is California. Although LDS clearly don't dominate daily life here, sometimes the bishopric pressure can be just as intense, particularly since one has to actively seek LDS professionals (doctors, attorneys, etc) since they are a small minority. In Utah, the chances would be much greater that at least some of a patient's doctors would be LDS.


scarecrowfromoz
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
1. I live in UT among Mormons and work with them.

2. Utah is a theocracy and I need to learn how/why they govern as they do.

3. I have relatives that converted. Some show signs they are not happy in the Morg (although I don't think they realize the Morg is the source of their unhappiness) and if any ever decide to leave, and I want to know how to support them and have an idea of what to say and not say.

4. Not to fuel Morg beliefs of "us against the world" but there is the old saying of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Not that I consider members enemies, but more like the crazy neighbor living next door that you are friendly with, but when they are out chopping wood and invite you to go into their basement with them while they are still carrying the ax, you say no.

5. I hate the divisive "Days of 47" in the summer that is a state holiday. Pick a day like the day of statehood (does anyone in UT even know when that is?) that everyone can celebrate, rather than a day honoring members of one religion. I now understand why some Native Americans protest Columbus Day. If the Mormon church wants to celebrate the days of 47 I have no problem. Just don't make it a state holiday.


summer kites
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I sometimes post here because my husband is a mormon. His exwife is a TBM in Utah. She believes that all non-mormons are pitiful degenerates. She doesn't think much of mormons outside of Utah either. She has made the comment "There are no good people outside of Utah." ( she is also a textbook narcissist and when her behavior sent him to the hospital with extreme stress and anxiety, to which she had no sympathy, the marriage came to an end ).

Since being married to my husband, I've seen how the mormon church has messed with him emotionally. I've also had mormons treat me like I was immoral and a bad influence on my husband. These judgement are made before they even get to know me as a person. It's simply because I'm not a member.

I come here because I can relate to the stories about exmormons/nevermos, etc. being treated poorly within the mormon culture.
This is basically the only place where I can feel free to talk about my frustrations. Because even though my husband is inactive, he still gets very defensive about the church if I or anyone else has a complaint about it.


omreven
Re: why do Nevermo's post here?
I married a Jackmo and the in-laws are TBM plus we have a lot of Mormon population out here. I found this board researching Mormonism. It's a fast board with a lot of interesting things to say and a lot of different points of view. It keeps me current on Mormon topics, but also the wisdom and experiences shared here are useful even in nonMormon situations. When I post, I hope my nevermo point of view is useful. And of course reading here helps me to understand some of the stuff Mormons/exMormons go though and I feel like it's a safe place to discuss some of the negative stuff you encounter, which you may not be able to discuss in person. I've pointed people here and some of the other exMormon boards if they're interested in learning more. I'm glad this board is here.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"