Family Friction My Brother is a Mormon

  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: SELECT data, created, headers, expire, serialized FROM cache_filter WHERE cid = '2:6d64b80dd4ef927ad0dd13c23bd75884' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 27.
  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>nomonomo Dec. 2012</p>\n<p>Been researching Mormonism because of some family friction, and found a lot of good info here. Thought I\'d post and see if anyone can offer insight into what I\'m dealing with. Thanks in advance for any insight. Here goes...</p>\n<p>My brother married a Mormon girl years ago.</p>\n<p>Everyone was sort of alarmed that he\'d married a Mormon, but we just assumed he wasn\'t really into it. They\'ve moved around a lot over the years because of his career. Sometimes they live closer than others, but probably for the last ten or so they have lived too far away to visit much.</p>\n<p>When they did live close or visit, we\'d see them sometimes, and they didn\'t seem too \"Mormonish\" (sorry if that offends anyone). What I mean is, they seldom talked about it, they went to our family church when in town, etc. We always sort of figured that they weren\'t \"too into it,\" since they moved a lot and never lived anywhere near Utah.</p>\n<p>I think we were just trying to reassure ourselves. Recent events have told us otherwise, however. I found out recently that my brother went on a mission nearly 20 years ago (who goes on a 2 year mission and doesn\'t tell their family?). Looking back, I see a lot of the stereotypical things: his wife was always a stay-at-home mom. She\'s always \"nice\" and \"positive\" all the time, baking bread, making cookies, playing games, etc. Nothing wrong with any of that, but recently she\'s started to act like she/they have a monopoly on family values.</p>\n<p>Turns out that my brother has also been heavily involved in scouts, which is odd because 1) he never was a scout himself, and 2) he doesn\'t have a son. I don\'t get that--if a guy wanted to lead my son but had no son of his own and had never even been a scout, I\'d would be seriously concerned. Again, looking back, at family gatherings he always wants to be the one to say grace or pray. My dad always asks if anyone wants to (otherwise he will himself), so my brother always volunteers.</p>\n<p>Over the years, they\'ve postponed moves to new cities so that my niece could attend a camp before leaving, or accelerated a move to a new city, so that she could go to camp there. She\'s always going to camps. Is camp that important? Also, I know she\'s started going to \"seminary\" every morning, and she posts Mormon crap non-stop on Facebook.</p>\n<p>A few years ago my [Mormon] niece asks another niece of mine \"do you pray like this, or this, or...\" while going through a pantomime of hands clasped, palms pressed together, hands up in the air, and folded across her chest. My Catholic niece looked at me like, \"hunh?\" I said, \"God doesn\'t care how you hold your hands when you pray.\" That was probably the first \"alarm\" for me.</p>\n<p>Anyway, what kind of brings this to a head at this point in time is that they\'ve announced that they\'re coming for Christmas this year, which they very seldom do. My sister-in-law has been \"announcing\" a bunch of stuff that \"we\" will be doing. Apparently Monday evenings are \"family night\" and we should be doing that stuff with them instead of our usual Christmas Eve routine. Additionally, matter-of-factly saying that we\'ll all go to the Mormon church on Sunday since \"we always go to yours.\"</p>\n<p>She has clearly overreached, and gotten some flack. I responded that we\'d be going to our church (where most of the family aside from them attend) on Sunday and Christmas Eve. She\'s responded with some really guilt-trippy messages. For example, \"if you had invited us to anything, we would be happy to go.\" In other words, we haven\'t invited them to anything. There\'s nothing to invite them to. Our whole extended family always does the same things at Christmas, and as family members they are welcome. No invitation needed. They\'ve even done so in the past. She also protests that she\'s just \"suggested lots of great family activities,\" and that we should be flexible. Well, it\'s Christmas Eve, and we\'re gonna do Christmas Eve.</p>\n<p>Over the years I\'ve read a little bit about Mormonism because of my brother\'s marriage, read some more recently because of the recent predidential election, but lately I can\'t stop reading about it. Yikes!</p>\n<p>Given what I\'ve learned recently, I kind of see them as fitting the patterns of some of the stuff I\'ve read about. Always \"super good,\" (although I have to say they\'ve never seemed judgmental in the past, and not pushy or problematic until recently). Some of the odd behavior I noted above. One thing I read said that Mormons are expected to \"influence\" the people in their lives, and I wonder if they\'ve reached the point where they feel like they need to do that. They\'ve been sort of \"away\" for nearly ten years (only one visit in that time). Occasionally they\'ve sent photos of the family all dressed in white. At those times I thought \"silly dress up,\" but now I\'m sure it means they\'ve been participating in temple rituals.</p>\n<p>Looking back, they haven\'t been \"secret\" about it, but they talk like it\'s just like \"going to church.\" Turns out, now that we\'re talking about it, everyone has just been hoping things weren\'t \"too bad,\" and trying to avoid the issue. All of us, Christians, agnostics and atheists alike, seem to agree that it\'s a freak show.</p>\n<p>Anyway, I\'ve read a lot of good stuff right here on this forum. So I thought I\'d ask for some feedback from others in the know. Am I overreacting to what I see as them getting pushy and guilt-trippy? Am I paranoid? Or do they fit the profile of people who have decided it\'s time to proselytize or \"influence\" their non-Mormon family members?</p>\n<p>Thanks for reading my note and any advice or feedback will be appreciated.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>motherwhoknows<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nIn my opinion, your gut reactions are correct. Mormons are trained to convert new members. Their motto is: \"every member a missionary.\" When they convert someone, they are promised that for them and the convert, \"Great will be your joy together in Heaven.\" People who bring in new members gain popularity and prestige within the group. They brag about it in meetings, and promote the \"missionaries\" up the hierarchy into higher callings. This is much like other cults operate. New members bring in new money.</p>\n<p>Mormons stalk children. They pull the children away from the adults in their meetings, because children are more easily brainwashed without their parents there. I wish you could get hold of a Primary manual, to read first-hand what Mormon children are being taught. One thing they are taught is that only Mormons who are temple married, or whose parents are temple married, will be together in the hereafter. I\'m divorced, and my children were taught in Primary that our family would \"pass by each other as strangers\" and be alone in the hereafter. My kids were freaked-out and had nightmares. Little kids are also taught that if they don\'t OBEY, they will burn in the Second Coming. This is not just a harmless nice little religion. Mormonism is an evil cult. I was born into it, and a member all my life, until the last 6 years. I got my children out, too. Do not let it influence your home!</p>\n<p>You have lived happily without your brother and his wife, up to this point, and there\'s no reason you can\'t continue living your own life, as you see fit. Already, your brother and wife are telling you how to live--and they haven\'t even arrived yet!</p>\n<p>Mormons know no boundaries. I repeat, Mormons do not respect the boundaries of others. You and your husband must sit down and agree on some firm boundaries, before your brother arrives. For example, you will honor your own Christmas Eve traditions! Mormons are not Christians, and they don\'t have a Christmas Eve service, or a special Christmas Day service. If you read here, you will discover that Mormon churches seldom mention Christ in their sermons and lessons. They talk of Joseph Smith and his Book of Mormon (not The Bible) and the Sunday school lessons are on the teachings of the old Mormon Prophets (most of them polygamous.) Go to your own church on Sunday before Christmas. Who\'s \"making deals\" anyway? You made no deal with your brother, when he went to your church. Mormons are very assertive and pushy, so be prepared to say \"NO\" a thousand times.</p>\n<p>Read, \"When I Say No I Feel Guilty.\" or some other book on assertiveness training. There are dialogs in the book, that will be useful in keeping your brother and his wife in their place--and out of your private business. Tell them that religion is a personal issue. In my house, I say, \"No politics or religion\", when people start debating. I also sit at the head of the table, and either say the prayer myself, or ask someone to pray. (Or make a toast if you don\'t pray.) You and your husband will have to take charge. It keeps the peace. There are thousands of other topics to talk about!</p>\n<p>Do you have children? Do this for their sake. Otherwise, you could have the worst Christmas of your life, or like me when I was stuck in the Mormon cult, the worst years of your life.</p>\n<hr />.\n<p>bc<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nA couple thoughts:</p>\n<p>1) Anticipate a somewhat biased set of answers coming from this bored. A lot of us have had worse than average experiences.</p>\n<p>2) Yes Mormon\'s are chronically indoctrinated to share their religion. You will need to establish boundaries early and firmly, especially with the approach she is taking.</p>\n<p>3) Even for Mormons being that pushy is rather weird. You may want to cite the 11th article of faith. Perhaps explain that they are fine to participate in whatever religious practices that they want, but that you won\'t be joining them.</p>\n<p>4) You may need to explain that you have already done a fair amount of research on Mormonism and that it is something you aren\'t interested in. The trick if you take this approach is to avoid it turning into a big fight where they attempt to defend Mormonism.</p>\n<hr />\nGlo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nYou have good instincts. It looks like they\'ve decided to make you guys their conversion project.\n<p>I don\'t see how they can hope to succeed by showing up and interferring in everyone\'s set Xmas routines.<br />\nBut Mormons can be a bit dense socially, you\'ll just have to learn to say NO very clearly.<br />\nDon\'t let them ruin your holidays.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nIt sounds like they\'ve come to the conclusion you\'d make good Mormons. If that\'s the case, they will try various ways, subtle and not so subtle to bring you into the church.</p>\n<p>Stand firm. Do not lead them on. Do not let them think there is any possibility now or later that you will join up. In other words, remove all hope.</p>\n<p>Don\'t let them kidnap Christmas. If you let them introduce one of their religious practices (family home evening) they will think they are gaining a foot hold. You have to make it perfectly clear your not interested in starting any new traditions. The usual ones will do just fine. They can join in if they want to.</p>\n<p>Do NOT let them haul any of the kids off to one of their church functions. Do NOT let them get a child alone so they can try to use them to get a foot in the door.</p>\n<p>If you have any family problems, don\'t discuss them. They may look at that as a potential opening. They are taught to go after people who are distressed.</p>\n<p>I was a 5th generation mormon. I know how they operate.</p>\n<p>Also, don\'t let them make rules in your house. If you drink coffee, or alcohol, don\'t let them shame you into not doing it because they are there. They may have a problem with letting their kids be around anyone whose doing those things. That would be their problem. Don\'t let them make it yours.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>lulu<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nnomonomo Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------</p>\n<p>> Anyway, what kind of brings this to a head at this<br />\n> point in time is that they\'ve announced that<br />\n> they\'re coming for Christmas this year,</p>\n<p>You could announce that they\'ll be staying in a hotel.</p>\n<p>xyz<br />\n\"You could announce that they\'ll be staying in a hotel.\"<br />\n^^^^^ THIS!^^^^^</p>\n<p>Mormons have really gotten carried away with their \"We\'re Spayshul People And You Should Do Things OUR WAY\" routine recently as a result of their expected takeover of the White House. Now they can\'t seem to back the fuck off it, and the OP is seeing the results of that.</p>\n<p>It will probably take bitch-slapping them really really hard across the face a few times before they quit acting so entitled to running your life for you. Here is a good How-To Primer for the slap:<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-0Ew5rslc\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-0Ew5rslc\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-0Ew5rslc</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>newcatholic<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nI see that you mention some of your family is Catholic. Do not let them put down the Catholic faith. They will present half truths to about that (any any other faith in in your family), things which are meant to find fault. Then they will present half truths about their faith, only these are to convince you to join the Mormons. Go to Utah Lighthouse Ministry\'s website and start reading the real truth so that you will be prepared with answers. Once they start missionary bombing you, it won\'t stop until you make it stop. They are on a mission from the church, and that mission is to bring you into their faith. They can be relentless, and as soon as you refuse, they will cry \"persecution\", so be ready for that (looks like your SIL has already started the persecution/guilt thing). In reply to the person who stated Mormons don\'t celebrate Christmas, I can\'t speak for his area, but they do celebrate it here in the south. You need to know, however, that their Christ is not the Christian Christ, the eternal God. Their Christ is just another one of us - our elder brother. He was just smarter and better. I left the Mormons 3 years ago and my searching led me to join the Catholic Church. I am now a very happy Catholic. Please do not let them brainwash you!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nGreat advice from everyone. All I would add is to always remember that they will \'take your kindness as weakness\' if they are typical. And don\'t forget... No good deed ever goes unpunished. You are playing in the major leagues now.</p>\n<p>I apologize for getting all Pollyanna on you.</p>\n<p>Put them in the Hotel like lulu said. You will never regret it.</p>\n<p>But most of all motherwhoknows post should be canonized RFM scripture.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\n> In my opinion, your gut reactions are correct.\n<p>Thanks for confirming my suspicions.</p>\n<p>> Mormons stalk children.</p>\n<p>Yea, I lot of what she wants to organize are activities for the kids. When pressed she said only expected \"unmarried\" people to participate. I guess unmarried people are effectively children...</p>\n<p>> You have lived happily without your brother and<br />\n> his wife, up to this point, and there\'s no reason<br />\n> you can\'t continue living your own life, as you<br />\n> see fit.</p>\n<p>Absolutely!</p>\n<p>> Mormons know no boundaries. I repeat, Mormons do<br />\n> not respect the boundaries of others. You and<br />\n> your husband must sit down and agree on some firm<br />\n> boundaries, before your brother arrives. For<br />\n> example, you will honor your own Christmas Eve<br />\n> traditions!</p>\n<p>This goes without saying. Others are corresponding with her as well, but after the \"suggestion\" of attending the Mormon church I told her matter-of-factly that we would be going to our own church, not the Mormon church. This started the endless guilt-trippy double-talking responses. After a few of those I just said \"the answer is \'no,\' and I don\'t want to hear about it again.\" I haven\'t heard from her since. I was very tempted to say that we would not do ANYTHING \"Mormon,\" or even religious, with them, but decided not to, because I didn\'t want to get into a sort of name-calling or antagonistic dialog. I was already getting the feeling that she was trying to badger me with \"niceness\" so that I\'d react in a negative way in order to further the guilt trips and \"persecution\" (someone else mentioned persecution in their response).</p>\n<p>> Mormons are not Christians,</p>\n<p>I\'ve figured that out in my readings and research on Mormonism. One of the reasons we are drawing the line at doing anything remotely religious with them is because we don\'t want to have to go through each thing to try to determine where we have \"common ground.\" Frankly, I suspect it\'s not much than in vocabulary, and I mean the words, not their definitions. We also don\'t want to be seen in any way as affirming Mormonism or giving the impression that it\'s \"ok.\"</p>\n<p>> If you read here, you will<br />\n> discover that Mormon churches seldom mention<br />\n> Christ in their sermons and lessons.</p>\n<p>I\'ve read quite a bit of good stuff here. I\'m grateful to each of you for taking the time to share your experiences and knowledge!</p>\n<p>> Go to your own church on Sunday<br />\n> before Christmas.</p>\n<p>That\'s our plan!</p>\n<p>> Who\'s \"making deals\" anyway?<br />\n> You made no deal with your brother, when he went<br />\n> to your church. Mormons are very assertive and<br />\n> pushy, so be prepared to say \"NO\" a thousand<br />\n> times.</p>\n<p>Nope. There were no negotiations. Besides, it\'s the church where he grew up. It\'s as much his as it is mine, or at least ought to be.</p>\n<p>> Read, \"When I Say No I Feel Guilty.\" or some other<br />\n> book on assertiveness training. There are dialogs<br />\n> in the book, that will be useful in keeping your<br />\n> brother and his wife in their place--and out of<br />\n> your private business.</p>\n<p>Thanks, but we\'re not really having an issue with assertiveness. My real concern with the initial post was to get feedback from people who would recognize what we\'re dealing with, and to confirm what was going on.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>summer<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nI would send them a copy of the family schedule as if they had somehow forgotten it --</p>\n<p>\"On Sunday most of us will be attending the family church with mom and dad, and we\'d love it if you would join us. However we do understand if you want to attend your local ward, which meets at [time and place.] On Christmas eve we will all gather at [location A.] On Christmas Day we will be getting together at [location B.] We hope that you can join us as much as your schedule allows.\"</p>\n<p>Pretend to be oblivious to any attitude they give you.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\n> A couple thoughts:<br />\n><br />\n> 1) Anticipate a somewhat biased set of answers<br />\n> coming from this bored.\n<p>I\'m counting on the bias. I\'m experiencing some things that are making me biased, and I want to know it\'s not just me!</p>\n<p>> 2) Yes Mormon\'s are chronically indoctrinated to<br />\n> share their religion. You will need to establish<br />\n> boundaries early and firmly, especially with the<br />\n> approach she is taking.</p>\n<p>Agreed. That\'s what we\'ve tried to do.</p>\n<p>> 3) Even for Mormons being that pushy is rather<br />\n> weird.</p>\n<p>Funny, even weird for them. As I said before, they\'ve never been this pushy or overt before (and, it\'s mainly my sister-in-law. My brother hasn\'t said anything to anyone). As I\'ve read more, and encountered the \"milk before meat\" rationale, I\'ll say that we always thought that they weren\'t too \"deep into it,\" and sort of knew that Mormonism was sort of revealed in stages (my wording/understanding), so we just thought they were on the periphery because they were always moving, and not too \"meaty,\" so to speak. Either we were wrong, or they\'ve really \"grown\" in the last few years...</p>\n<p>> You may want to cite the 11th article of<br />\n> faith.</p>\n<p>I\'ll have to look that up. Not familiar with it.</p>\n<p>> 4) You may need to explain that you have already<br />\n> done a fair amount of research on Mormonism and<br />\n> that it is something you aren\'t interested in.</p>\n<p>I\'ve been tempted to do that, but don\'t want them to cry persecution either.</p>\n<p>> The trick if you take this approach is to avoid it<br />\n> turning into a big fight where they attempt to<br />\n> defend Mormonism.</p>\n<p>Exactly. If they\'re effectively brainwashed, there\'ll be no reasoning with them anyway. I\'ve learned that one of the better approaches is to ask questions to get them to think about it. My brother is a pretty smart guy.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nMia Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> Also, don\'t let them make rules in your house. If<br />\n> you drink coffee, or alcohol, don\'t let them shame<br />\n> you into not doing it because they are there. They<br />\n> may have a problem with letting their kids be<br />\n> around anyone whose doing those things. That would<br />\n> be their problem. Don\'t let them make it yours.\n<p>Actually, last time we were in their home it was stocked up with soda, even caffeinated drinks. This was one \"sign\" that made me think they weren\'t \"too Mormon\" (I knew Mormon kids growing up who couldn\'t drink caffeine. But that was ten years ago. Don\'t know what they\'re drinking now.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nlulu Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> You could announce that they\'ll be staying in a<br />\n> hotel.\n<p>Actually, they\'ll be staying at my folks\' house. They have a big house with lots of room, and my dad is tickled that they\'re coming, and everyone will be \"home\" for Christmas. Mom is not quite so happy: Dad\'s health is going downhill, and he worries openly that this will be his last Christmas. A part of me wonders if this is why our Mormon family members are making the \"pilgrimage\" home. Someone else mentioned Mormons preying on weakness and problems. A part of me would like to say they just want to see him, but another part of me worries that this is something they might try to exploit.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>nomonomo<br />\nRe: \"You could announce that they\'ll be staying in a hotel.\"<br />\nxyz Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> Mormons have really gotten carried away with their<br />\n> \"We\'re Spayshul People And You Should Do Things<br />\n> OUR WAY\" routine recently as a result of their<br />\n> expected takeover of the White House.</p>\n<p>Yeah, I\'ve picked up on this. Our kids are getting proselytized at school. \"Hey, wanna see a cool book?\" Sorry, the BOM isn\'t cool. Anyway, we\'ve taught them how to deal with that.</p>\n<p>I think I mentioned above that the recent election was one reason I\'d actually been reading about Mormonism. But, yeah, they seem to be creeping in all over the place.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>nomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nnewcatholic Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> Do not let them put down the Catholic faith.</p>\n<p>I won\'t let them put down the the Catholic faith (two of my best friends are Roman Catholic, and some other family members), nor ANY Christian faith. If they want to start a debate about faiths, they\'ll have a real fight on their hands. Pretty much the whole family are dedicated Christians (and a few agnostics), plus our social network. Another good friend is an Episcopal priest. My very best friend is our pastor, and I\'m the worship leader in our church. Ironically, my brother\'s own best friend growing up is also a pastor at a growing non-denominational church (he said he never hears from my brother any more...).</p>\n<p>Sorry I was a little bit vague about this background stuff in my first post. I guess I was a little paranoid that they\'d come across the post, but that\'s not likely to happen. And who cares if they do.</p>\n<p>Maybe we should just arrange an intervention while they\'re in town! ;-)</p>\n<p>> Go<br />\n> to Utah Lighthouse Ministry\'s website and start<br />\n> reading the real truth so that you will be<br />\n> prepared with answers.</p>\n<p>I\'ll check it out. I\'ve read a lot of good stuff online, but hadn\'t come across that website yet.</p>\n<p>> Once they start missionary<br />\n> bombing you, it won\'t stop until you make it stop.</p>\n<p>Does that mean they\'ll send the missionaries? Or pester us themselves?</p>\n<p>> You need to know, however,<br />\n> that their Christ is not the Christian Christ, the<br />\n> eternal God. Their Christ is just another one of<br />\n> us - our elder brother.</p>\n<p>This I have learned. I had always heard that Mormonism was a \"cult,\" but never really knew the details, and probably sort of avoided learning it to be honest. Lately I feel compelled to keep reading about it.</p>\n<p>> I left the Mormons 3 years ago and my<br />\n> searching led me to join the Catholic Church. I<br />\n> am now a very happy Catholic.</p>\n<p>Congratulations! And God bless you.</p>\n<p>> Please do not let them brainwash you!</p>\n<p>Don\'t worry. That\'s not gonna happen. Honestly, the more I think about it the more I suspect that they\'ve been afraid, or just had the good judgement, not to bring it up. Don\'t know why now it\'s happening.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nsummer Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> I would send them a copy of the family schedule as<br />\n> if they had somehow forgotten it --<br />\n><br />\n> \"On Sunday most of us will be attending the family<br />\n> church with mom and dad, and we\'d love it if you<br />\n> would join us. However we do understand if you<br />\n> want to attend your local ward, which meets at On<br />\n> Christmas eve we will all gather at On Christmas<br />\n> Day we will be getting together at We hope that<br />\n> you can join us as much as your schedule allows.\"<br />\n><br />\n> Pretend to be oblivious to any attitude they give<br />\n> you.\n<p>This is actually good advice! She\'s been all \"officious\" with saying we\'ll be doing this and that. Just present them with the schedule of activities.</p>\n<p>For all intents and purposes I did that in an email already.</p>\n<hr />\nGreyfort<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nThey\'ll never admit it, but Catholicism is evil to Mormons. My friends and I used to discuss how it was Babylon, the Whore of all the Earth and crap like that.\n<p>It sounds like you may be reaching a point where you\'ll need to set some firm boundaries. \"Look, I know that you\'re Mormon and we\'ve always been respectful of that, but you need to realize that we\'re not Mormon and we\'re not going to be. If you want to go to your church, that\'s fine. But we\'re going to Mass, as usual.\" Or whatever your usual routine is.</p>\n<p>Don\'t let them guilt you into anything. They\'re really big on guilt.</p>\n<hr />\ncaptainjackmormon<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nnewcatholic Wrote:\n<p>> I see that you mention some of your family is<br />\n> Catholic. Do not let them put down the Catholic<br />\n> faith.</p>\n<p>My in-laws have photos of their LDS president posted even more prominently than many devout Catholics I know, and much of the drivel I\'ve heard one of my brothers-in-law spew, like \"They worship the pope as a god,\" applies to their own cult.</p>\n<p>> They will present half truths to about<br />\n> that (any any other faith in in your family),<br />\n> things which are meant to find fault. Then they<br />\n> will present half truths about their faith, only<br />\n> these are to convince you to join the Mormons.</p>\n<p>\"Thou shalt not lie\" always goes out the window when it comes time to indoctrinate others, although those others will be told that THEY better not ever lie. My response to religious attacks would take the form of either 1) \"I\'m comfortable enough with my faith that anything you say will not shake it,\" or 2) \"Now I don\'t tell lies about your faith...how would you feel if I did that?\" Then remind them to not eff up the holiday ... or else. \"This is not open to negotiation or discussion.\"</p>\n<p>Mrs. Jack is active here on these boards somewhere, and if any of her family pulled any of the crap that\'s being described, the plopping of the offender on the doorstep would look just like Fred in the closing credits of \"The Flintstones.\"</p>\n<hr />\nnewcatholic<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\n> Once they start missionary<br />\n> bombing you, it won\'t stop until you make it stop.\n<p>>Does that mean they\'ll send the missionaries? Or pester us >themselves?</p>\n<p>They will start by trying to love you into their faith. They will send the missionaries if they think there is even the slighest possibility you will let them in the door. Never forget that Mormons are carefully taught that if they don\'t convert you, they will somehow pay for it in their heaven. The phrase you will hear all the time is \"every member a missionary\", so even if the \"official missionaries\" don\'t come by, your Mormon brother, his wife, and his children are all considered as missionaries. Word of warning: don\'t be too hard on their children if they say stuff to hurt your feelings - they are only repeating what their parents and church leaders have taught them. From what you have said about your SIL, I know women just like her. If you say anything against the Mormon church in front of her children, she will freak, berate your brother for letting that happen, and issue an order that you are now stricken from her family gatherings (maybe even cut out of the family pics (hehehe)). Like everyone here has said, be ready to counter their claims, and stand your ground. Good Luck!!!</p>\n<hr />\nbc<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nThe articles of faith are part of the Wentworth letter that Joseph Smith sent to a newspaper to tell about the church. They are part of the Pearl of Great Prices so they are official scripture.\n<p>Additionally they are HEAVILY pushed by Mormons - For example all kids must memorize all 13 of then by age twelve to get an award (e.g. to graduate from primary with honors).</p>\n<p>Here\'s #11:<br />\n11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.</p>\n<hr />\nnomonomo<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nGreyfort Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n> They\'ll never admit it, but Catholicism is evil to<br />\n> Mormons. My friends and I used to discuss how it<br />\n> was Babylon, the Whore of all the Earth and crap<br />\n> like that.\n<p>Catholic bashing isn\'t unique to Mormons. Sadly, I\'ve heard Baptist preachers refer to the Pope as the \"whore of Rome,\" and stuff like that. That was many years ago. Fortunately, I think inter-denominational bickering like that is dying down. At least I don\'t see it like I did in my youth.</p>\n<hr />\nlulu<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nI\'ve taken pretty much taken that approach with TBM visiting family members. I just keep to my usual schedule. If there\'s something I think they might like doing, I invite them along. If they don\'t want to come along, that\'s fine. If there\'s stuff I don\'t want to invite them to I don\'t. They\'re grown ups and can find ways to entertain themselves.\n<p>As to to the insight that papa is going down hill and they (or maybe just sis-in-law) are coming to save Dad and the rest of you in this moment of weakness, this could be right on.</p>\n<p>On the other hand, I understand the stress, a whole bunch of them have invited themselves to visit me in the Spring. They already know they\'ll be staying in a hotel. I\'m thinking I won\'t even invite them to my place. We can see a show together, dinner, maybe a ball game. But apart from that, I\'ll live my life and they can figure out what they want to do for themselves. I think I will meet them at the airport and make sure they get to their hotel for the first time but I\'m not going to be a full time entertainment bureau or tour guide.</p>\n<p>(And sorry to highjack)</p>\n<hr />.\n<p>bona dea<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nI would try to accommodate something they want to do if possible, but otherwise Let them know that you have plans and traditions of your own and that one of these is mass.Invite them but leave them an out if they don\'t want to come. Don\'t let them invite themselves and . then change the rules.Also,if alcohol and coffee are part of your plans, it is your house. Don\'t assume the worst,but have a plan just I case.</p>\n<hr />\nGreyfort<br />\nRe: Family Friction<br />\nnomonomo Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n><br />\n> Catholic bashing isn\'t unique to Mormons. Sadly,<br />\n> I\'ve heard Baptist preachers refer to the Pope as<br />\n> the \"whore of Rome,\" and stuff like that.\n<p>True. I left the Baptist Church when the Pastor got up one day and named other churches, along with Catholics and Mormons, and said, \"Don\'t you pat them on the back and say, \"God bless you.\"\" I was shocked and I left. Unfortunately, then I headed to the Mormon Church, silly me. LOL</p>\n<hr />\nanagrammy<br />\nI agree, motherwhoknows does know and is kind enough to share here with us.<br />\nMormon manipulation includes the idea that they \"care more\" and you \"don\'t care or care less,\" therefore, they should get to say what goes on.\n<p>You can hear this in her statement, \"If you invited us to something, we would go.\" The implication is that you are rude to reject their invitation.</p>\n<p>The fact is, religious worship or lack of it is as personal as sex. It is not traded back and forth like dinner parties where reciprocation is expected. Religious worship is not a social occasion. It is deeply personal and your Mormon family is intrusive to say the least.</p>\n<p>The arrogance of assuming they will choose, they know best, and you \"shouldn\'t mind\" reveals a mindset that denies you the choice--or attempts to. This is a microcosm of their whole religion -- denial of choice. You do what we say or we make sure you regret it.</p>\n<p>Not exactly Jesus\' plan, is it?</p>\n<p>Anagrammy</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1487776223, expire = 1487862623, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:6d64b80dd4ef927ad0dd13c23bd75884' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

nomonomo Dec. 2012

Been researching Mormonism because of some family friction, and found a lot of good info here. Thought I'd post and see if anyone can offer insight into what I'm dealing with. Thanks in advance for any insight. Here goes...

My brother married a Mormon girl years ago.

Everyone was sort of alarmed that he'd married a Mormon, but we just assumed he wasn't really into it. They've moved around a lot over the years because of his career. Sometimes they live closer than others, but probably for the last ten or so they have lived too far away to visit much.

When they did live close or visit, we'd see them sometimes, and they didn't seem too "Mormonish" (sorry if that offends anyone). What I mean is, they seldom talked about it, they went to our family church when in town, etc. We always sort of figured that they weren't "too into it," since they moved a lot and never lived anywhere near Utah.

I think we were just trying to reassure ourselves. Recent events have told us otherwise, however. I found out recently that my brother went on a mission nearly 20 years ago (who goes on a 2 year mission and doesn't tell their family?). Looking back, I see a lot of the stereotypical things: his wife was always a stay-at-home mom. She's always "nice" and "positive" all the time, baking bread, making cookies, playing games, etc. Nothing wrong with any of that, but recently she's started to act like she/they have a monopoly on family values.

Turns out that my brother has also been heavily involved in scouts, which is odd because 1) he never was a scout himself, and 2) he doesn't have a son. I don't get that--if a guy wanted to lead my son but had no son of his own and had never even been a scout, I'd would be seriously concerned. Again, looking back, at family gatherings he always wants to be the one to say grace or pray. My dad always asks if anyone wants to (otherwise he will himself), so my brother always volunteers.

Over the years, they've postponed moves to new cities so that my niece could attend a camp before leaving, or accelerated a move to a new city, so that she could go to camp there. She's always going to camps. Is camp that important? Also, I know she's started going to "seminary" every morning, and she posts Mormon crap non-stop on Facebook.

A few years ago my [Mormon] niece asks another niece of mine "do you pray like this, or this, or..." while going through a pantomime of hands clasped, palms pressed together, hands up in the air, and folded across her chest. My Catholic niece looked at me like, "hunh?" I said, "God doesn't care how you hold your hands when you pray." That was probably the first "alarm" for me.

Anyway, what kind of brings this to a head at this point in time is that they've announced that they're coming for Christmas this year, which they very seldom do. My sister-in-law has been "announcing" a bunch of stuff that "we" will be doing. Apparently Monday evenings are "family night" and we should be doing that stuff with them instead of our usual Christmas Eve routine. Additionally, matter-of-factly saying that we'll all go to the Mormon church on Sunday since "we always go to yours."

She has clearly overreached, and gotten some flack. I responded that we'd be going to our church (where most of the family aside from them attend) on Sunday and Christmas Eve. She's responded with some really guilt-trippy messages. For example, "if you had invited us to anything, we would be happy to go." In other words, we haven't invited them to anything. There's nothing to invite them to. Our whole extended family always does the same things at Christmas, and as family members they are welcome. No invitation needed. They've even done so in the past. She also protests that she's just "suggested lots of great family activities," and that we should be flexible. Well, it's Christmas Eve, and we're gonna do Christmas Eve.

Over the years I've read a little bit about Mormonism because of my brother's marriage, read some more recently because of the recent predidential election, but lately I can't stop reading about it. Yikes!

Given what I've learned recently, I kind of see them as fitting the patterns of some of the stuff I've read about. Always "super good," (although I have to say they've never seemed judgmental in the past, and not pushy or problematic until recently). Some of the odd behavior I noted above. One thing I read said that Mormons are expected to "influence" the people in their lives, and I wonder if they've reached the point where they feel like they need to do that. They've been sort of "away" for nearly ten years (only one visit in that time). Occasionally they've sent photos of the family all dressed in white. At those times I thought "silly dress up," but now I'm sure it means they've been participating in temple rituals.

Looking back, they haven't been "secret" about it, but they talk like it's just like "going to church." Turns out, now that we're talking about it, everyone has just been hoping things weren't "too bad," and trying to avoid the issue. All of us, Christians, agnostics and atheists alike, seem to agree that it's a freak show.

Anyway, I've read a lot of good stuff right here on this forum. So I thought I'd ask for some feedback from others in the know. Am I overreacting to what I see as them getting pushy and guilt-trippy? Am I paranoid? Or do they fit the profile of people who have decided it's time to proselytize or "influence" their non-Mormon family members?

Thanks for reading my note and any advice or feedback will be appreciated.


motherwhoknows
Re: Family Friction
In my opinion, your gut reactions are correct. Mormons are trained to convert new members. Their motto is: "every member a missionary." When they convert someone, they are promised that for them and the convert, "Great will be your joy together in Heaven." People who bring in new members gain popularity and prestige within the group. They brag about it in meetings, and promote the "missionaries" up the hierarchy into higher callings. This is much like other cults operate. New members bring in new money.

Mormons stalk children. They pull the children away from the adults in their meetings, because children are more easily brainwashed without their parents there. I wish you could get hold of a Primary manual, to read first-hand what Mormon children are being taught. One thing they are taught is that only Mormons who are temple married, or whose parents are temple married, will be together in the hereafter. I'm divorced, and my children were taught in Primary that our family would "pass by each other as strangers" and be alone in the hereafter. My kids were freaked-out and had nightmares. Little kids are also taught that if they don't OBEY, they will burn in the Second Coming. This is not just a harmless nice little religion. Mormonism is an evil cult. I was born into it, and a member all my life, until the last 6 years. I got my children out, too. Do not let it influence your home!

You have lived happily without your brother and his wife, up to this point, and there's no reason you can't continue living your own life, as you see fit. Already, your brother and wife are telling you how to live--and they haven't even arrived yet!

Mormons know no boundaries. I repeat, Mormons do not respect the boundaries of others. You and your husband must sit down and agree on some firm boundaries, before your brother arrives. For example, you will honor your own Christmas Eve traditions! Mormons are not Christians, and they don't have a Christmas Eve service, or a special Christmas Day service. If you read here, you will discover that Mormon churches seldom mention Christ in their sermons and lessons. They talk of Joseph Smith and his Book of Mormon (not The Bible) and the Sunday school lessons are on the teachings of the old Mormon Prophets (most of them polygamous.) Go to your own church on Sunday before Christmas. Who's "making deals" anyway? You made no deal with your brother, when he went to your church. Mormons are very assertive and pushy, so be prepared to say "NO" a thousand times.

Read, "When I Say No I Feel Guilty." or some other book on assertiveness training. There are dialogs in the book, that will be useful in keeping your brother and his wife in their place--and out of your private business. Tell them that religion is a personal issue. In my house, I say, "No politics or religion", when people start debating. I also sit at the head of the table, and either say the prayer myself, or ask someone to pray. (Or make a toast if you don't pray.) You and your husband will have to take charge. It keeps the peace. There are thousands of other topics to talk about!

Do you have children? Do this for their sake. Otherwise, you could have the worst Christmas of your life, or like me when I was stuck in the Mormon cult, the worst years of your life.


.

bc
Re: Family Friction
A couple thoughts:

1) Anticipate a somewhat biased set of answers coming from this bored. A lot of us have had worse than average experiences.

2) Yes Mormon's are chronically indoctrinated to share their religion. You will need to establish boundaries early and firmly, especially with the approach she is taking.

3) Even for Mormons being that pushy is rather weird. You may want to cite the 11th article of faith. Perhaps explain that they are fine to participate in whatever religious practices that they want, but that you won't be joining them.

4) You may need to explain that you have already done a fair amount of research on Mormonism and that it is something you aren't interested in. The trick if you take this approach is to avoid it turning into a big fight where they attempt to defend Mormonism.


Glo
Re: Family Friction
You have good instincts. It looks like they've decided to make you guys their conversion project.

I don't see how they can hope to succeed by showing up and interferring in everyone's set Xmas routines.
But Mormons can be a bit dense socially, you'll just have to learn to say NO very clearly.
Don't let them ruin your holidays.


Mia
Re: Family Friction
It sounds like they've come to the conclusion you'd make good Mormons. If that's the case, they will try various ways, subtle and not so subtle to bring you into the church.

Stand firm. Do not lead them on. Do not let them think there is any possibility now or later that you will join up. In other words, remove all hope.

Don't let them kidnap Christmas. If you let them introduce one of their religious practices (family home evening) they will think they are gaining a foot hold. You have to make it perfectly clear your not interested in starting any new traditions. The usual ones will do just fine. They can join in if they want to.

Do NOT let them haul any of the kids off to one of their church functions. Do NOT let them get a child alone so they can try to use them to get a foot in the door.

If you have any family problems, don't discuss them. They may look at that as a potential opening. They are taught to go after people who are distressed.

I was a 5th generation mormon. I know how they operate.

Also, don't let them make rules in your house. If you drink coffee, or alcohol, don't let them shame you into not doing it because they are there. They may have a problem with letting their kids be around anyone whose doing those things. That would be their problem. Don't let them make it yours.


lulu
Re: Family Friction
nomonomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyway, what kind of brings this to a head at this
> point in time is that they've announced that
> they're coming for Christmas this year,

You could announce that they'll be staying in a hotel.

xyz
"You could announce that they'll be staying in a hotel."
^^^^^ THIS!^^^^^

Mormons have really gotten carried away with their "We're Spayshul People And You Should Do Things OUR WAY" routine recently as a result of their expected takeover of the White House. Now they can't seem to back the fuck off it, and the OP is seeing the results of that.

It will probably take bitch-slapping them really really hard across the face a few times before they quit acting so entitled to running your life for you. Here is a good How-To Primer for the slap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-0Ew5rslc


newcatholic
Re: Family Friction
I see that you mention some of your family is Catholic. Do not let them put down the Catholic faith. They will present half truths to about that (any any other faith in in your family), things which are meant to find fault. Then they will present half truths about their faith, only these are to convince you to join the Mormons. Go to Utah Lighthouse Ministry's website and start reading the real truth so that you will be prepared with answers. Once they start missionary bombing you, it won't stop until you make it stop. They are on a mission from the church, and that mission is to bring you into their faith. They can be relentless, and as soon as you refuse, they will cry "persecution", so be ready for that (looks like your SIL has already started the persecution/guilt thing). In reply to the person who stated Mormons don't celebrate Christmas, I can't speak for his area, but they do celebrate it here in the south. You need to know, however, that their Christ is not the Christian Christ, the eternal God. Their Christ is just another one of us - our elder brother. He was just smarter and better. I left the Mormons 3 years ago and my searching led me to join the Catholic Church. I am now a very happy Catholic. Please do not let them brainwash you!


blueorchid
Re: Family Friction
Great advice from everyone. All I would add is to always remember that they will 'take your kindness as weakness' if they are typical. And don't forget... No good deed ever goes unpunished. You are playing in the major leagues now.

I apologize for getting all Pollyanna on you.

Put them in the Hotel like lulu said. You will never regret it.

But most of all motherwhoknows post should be canonized RFM scripture.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
> In my opinion, your gut reactions are correct.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

> Mormons stalk children.

Yea, I lot of what she wants to organize are activities for the kids. When pressed she said only expected "unmarried" people to participate. I guess unmarried people are effectively children...

> You have lived happily without your brother and
> his wife, up to this point, and there's no reason
> you can't continue living your own life, as you
> see fit.

Absolutely!

> Mormons know no boundaries. I repeat, Mormons do
> not respect the boundaries of others. You and
> your husband must sit down and agree on some firm
> boundaries, before your brother arrives. For
> example, you will honor your own Christmas Eve
> traditions!

This goes without saying. Others are corresponding with her as well, but after the "suggestion" of attending the Mormon church I told her matter-of-factly that we would be going to our own church, not the Mormon church. This started the endless guilt-trippy double-talking responses. After a few of those I just said "the answer is 'no,' and I don't want to hear about it again." I haven't heard from her since. I was very tempted to say that we would not do ANYTHING "Mormon," or even religious, with them, but decided not to, because I didn't want to get into a sort of name-calling or antagonistic dialog. I was already getting the feeling that she was trying to badger me with "niceness" so that I'd react in a negative way in order to further the guilt trips and "persecution" (someone else mentioned persecution in their response).

> Mormons are not Christians,

I've figured that out in my readings and research on Mormonism. One of the reasons we are drawing the line at doing anything remotely religious with them is because we don't want to have to go through each thing to try to determine where we have "common ground." Frankly, I suspect it's not much than in vocabulary, and I mean the words, not their definitions. We also don't want to be seen in any way as affirming Mormonism or giving the impression that it's "ok."

> If you read here, you will
> discover that Mormon churches seldom mention
> Christ in their sermons and lessons.

I've read quite a bit of good stuff here. I'm grateful to each of you for taking the time to share your experiences and knowledge!

> Go to your own church on Sunday
> before Christmas.

That's our plan!

> Who's "making deals" anyway?
> You made no deal with your brother, when he went
> to your church. Mormons are very assertive and
> pushy, so be prepared to say "NO" a thousand
> times.

Nope. There were no negotiations. Besides, it's the church where he grew up. It's as much his as it is mine, or at least ought to be.

> Read, "When I Say No I Feel Guilty." or some other
> book on assertiveness training. There are dialogs
> in the book, that will be useful in keeping your
> brother and his wife in their place--and out of
> your private business.

Thanks, but we're not really having an issue with assertiveness. My real concern with the initial post was to get feedback from people who would recognize what we're dealing with, and to confirm what was going on.


summer
Re: Family Friction
I would send them a copy of the family schedule as if they had somehow forgotten it --

"On Sunday most of us will be attending the family church with mom and dad, and we'd love it if you would join us. However we do understand if you want to attend your local ward, which meets at [time and place.] On Christmas eve we will all gather at [location A.] On Christmas Day we will be getting together at [location B.] We hope that you can join us as much as your schedule allows."

Pretend to be oblivious to any attitude they give you.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
> A couple thoughts:
>
> 1) Anticipate a somewhat biased set of answers
> coming from this bored.

I'm counting on the bias. I'm experiencing some things that are making me biased, and I want to know it's not just me!

> 2) Yes Mormon's are chronically indoctrinated to
> share their religion. You will need to establish
> boundaries early and firmly, especially with the
> approach she is taking.

Agreed. That's what we've tried to do.

> 3) Even for Mormons being that pushy is rather
> weird.

Funny, even weird for them. As I said before, they've never been this pushy or overt before (and, it's mainly my sister-in-law. My brother hasn't said anything to anyone). As I've read more, and encountered the "milk before meat" rationale, I'll say that we always thought that they weren't too "deep into it," and sort of knew that Mormonism was sort of revealed in stages (my wording/understanding), so we just thought they were on the periphery because they were always moving, and not too "meaty," so to speak. Either we were wrong, or they've really "grown" in the last few years...

> You may want to cite the 11th article of
> faith.

I'll have to look that up. Not familiar with it.

> 4) You may need to explain that you have already
> done a fair amount of research on Mormonism and
> that it is something you aren't interested in.

I've been tempted to do that, but don't want them to cry persecution either.

> The trick if you take this approach is to avoid it
> turning into a big fight where they attempt to
> defend Mormonism.

Exactly. If they're effectively brainwashed, there'll be no reasoning with them anyway. I've learned that one of the better approaches is to ask questions to get them to think about it. My brother is a pretty smart guy.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
Mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, don't let them make rules in your house. If
> you drink coffee, or alcohol, don't let them shame
> you into not doing it because they are there. They
> may have a problem with letting their kids be
> around anyone whose doing those things. That would
> be their problem. Don't let them make it yours.

Actually, last time we were in their home it was stocked up with soda, even caffeinated drinks. This was one "sign" that made me think they weren't "too Mormon" (I knew Mormon kids growing up who couldn't drink caffeine. But that was ten years ago. Don't know what they're drinking now.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
lulu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could announce that they'll be staying in a
> hotel.

Actually, they'll be staying at my folks' house. They have a big house with lots of room, and my dad is tickled that they're coming, and everyone will be "home" for Christmas. Mom is not quite so happy: Dad's health is going downhill, and he worries openly that this will be his last Christmas. A part of me wonders if this is why our Mormon family members are making the "pilgrimage" home. Someone else mentioned Mormons preying on weakness and problems. A part of me would like to say they just want to see him, but another part of me worries that this is something they might try to exploit.


nomonomo
Re: "You could announce that they'll be staying in a hotel."
xyz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormons have really gotten carried away with their
> "We're Spayshul People And You Should Do Things
> OUR WAY" routine recently as a result of their
> expected takeover of the White House.

Yeah, I've picked up on this. Our kids are getting proselytized at school. "Hey, wanna see a cool book?" Sorry, the BOM isn't cool. Anyway, we've taught them how to deal with that.

I think I mentioned above that the recent election was one reason I'd actually been reading about Mormonism. But, yeah, they seem to be creeping in all over the place.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
newcatholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do not let them put down the Catholic faith.

I won't let them put down the the Catholic faith (two of my best friends are Roman Catholic, and some other family members), nor ANY Christian faith. If they want to start a debate about faiths, they'll have a real fight on their hands. Pretty much the whole family are dedicated Christians (and a few agnostics), plus our social network. Another good friend is an Episcopal priest. My very best friend is our pastor, and I'm the worship leader in our church. Ironically, my brother's own best friend growing up is also a pastor at a growing non-denominational church (he said he never hears from my brother any more...).

Sorry I was a little bit vague about this background stuff in my first post. I guess I was a little paranoid that they'd come across the post, but that's not likely to happen. And who cares if they do.

Maybe we should just arrange an intervention while they're in town! ;-)

> Go
> to Utah Lighthouse Ministry's website and start
> reading the real truth so that you will be
> prepared with answers.

I'll check it out. I've read a lot of good stuff online, but hadn't come across that website yet.

> Once they start missionary
> bombing you, it won't stop until you make it stop.

Does that mean they'll send the missionaries? Or pester us themselves?

> You need to know, however,
> that their Christ is not the Christian Christ, the
> eternal God. Their Christ is just another one of
> us - our elder brother.

This I have learned. I had always heard that Mormonism was a "cult," but never really knew the details, and probably sort of avoided learning it to be honest. Lately I feel compelled to keep reading about it.

> I left the Mormons 3 years ago and my
> searching led me to join the Catholic Church. I
> am now a very happy Catholic.

Congratulations! And God bless you.

> Please do not let them brainwash you!

Don't worry. That's not gonna happen. Honestly, the more I think about it the more I suspect that they've been afraid, or just had the good judgement, not to bring it up. Don't know why now it's happening.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would send them a copy of the family schedule as
> if they had somehow forgotten it --
>
> "On Sunday most of us will be attending the family
> church with mom and dad, and we'd love it if you
> would join us. However we do understand if you
> want to attend your local ward, which meets at On
> Christmas eve we will all gather at On Christmas
> Day we will be getting together at We hope that
> you can join us as much as your schedule allows."
>
> Pretend to be oblivious to any attitude they give
> you.

This is actually good advice! She's been all "officious" with saying we'll be doing this and that. Just present them with the schedule of activities.

For all intents and purposes I did that in an email already.


Greyfort
Re: Family Friction
They'll never admit it, but Catholicism is evil to Mormons. My friends and I used to discuss how it was Babylon, the Whore of all the Earth and crap like that.

It sounds like you may be reaching a point where you'll need to set some firm boundaries. "Look, I know that you're Mormon and we've always been respectful of that, but you need to realize that we're not Mormon and we're not going to be. If you want to go to your church, that's fine. But we're going to Mass, as usual." Or whatever your usual routine is.

Don't let them guilt you into anything. They're really big on guilt.


captainjackmormon
Re: Family Friction
newcatholic Wrote:

> I see that you mention some of your family is
> Catholic. Do not let them put down the Catholic
> faith.

My in-laws have photos of their LDS president posted even more prominently than many devout Catholics I know, and much of the drivel I've heard one of my brothers-in-law spew, like "They worship the pope as a god," applies to their own cult.

> They will present half truths to about
> that (any any other faith in in your family),
> things which are meant to find fault. Then they
> will present half truths about their faith, only
> these are to convince you to join the Mormons.

"Thou shalt not lie" always goes out the window when it comes time to indoctrinate others, although those others will be told that THEY better not ever lie. My response to religious attacks would take the form of either 1) "I'm comfortable enough with my faith that anything you say will not shake it," or 2) "Now I don't tell lies about your faith...how would you feel if I did that?" Then remind them to not eff up the holiday ... or else. "This is not open to negotiation or discussion."

Mrs. Jack is active here on these boards somewhere, and if any of her family pulled any of the crap that's being described, the plopping of the offender on the doorstep would look just like Fred in the closing credits of "The Flintstones."


newcatholic
Re: Family Friction
> Once they start missionary
> bombing you, it won't stop until you make it stop.

>Does that mean they'll send the missionaries? Or pester us >themselves?

They will start by trying to love you into their faith. They will send the missionaries if they think there is even the slighest possibility you will let them in the door. Never forget that Mormons are carefully taught that if they don't convert you, they will somehow pay for it in their heaven. The phrase you will hear all the time is "every member a missionary", so even if the "official missionaries" don't come by, your Mormon brother, his wife, and his children are all considered as missionaries. Word of warning: don't be too hard on their children if they say stuff to hurt your feelings - they are only repeating what their parents and church leaders have taught them. From what you have said about your SIL, I know women just like her. If you say anything against the Mormon church in front of her children, she will freak, berate your brother for letting that happen, and issue an order that you are now stricken from her family gatherings (maybe even cut out of the family pics (hehehe)). Like everyone here has said, be ready to counter their claims, and stand your ground. Good Luck!!!


bc
Re: Family Friction
The articles of faith are part of the Wentworth letter that Joseph Smith sent to a newspaper to tell about the church. They are part of the Pearl of Great Prices so they are official scripture.

Additionally they are HEAVILY pushed by Mormons - For example all kids must memorize all 13 of then by age twelve to get an award (e.g. to graduate from primary with honors).

Here's #11:
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


nomonomo
Re: Family Friction
Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They'll never admit it, but Catholicism is evil to
> Mormons. My friends and I used to discuss how it
> was Babylon, the Whore of all the Earth and crap
> like that.

Catholic bashing isn't unique to Mormons. Sadly, I've heard Baptist preachers refer to the Pope as the "whore of Rome," and stuff like that. That was many years ago. Fortunately, I think inter-denominational bickering like that is dying down. At least I don't see it like I did in my youth.


lulu
Re: Family Friction
I've taken pretty much taken that approach with TBM visiting family members. I just keep to my usual schedule. If there's something I think they might like doing, I invite them along. If they don't want to come along, that's fine. If there's stuff I don't want to invite them to I don't. They're grown ups and can find ways to entertain themselves.

As to to the insight that papa is going down hill and they (or maybe just sis-in-law) are coming to save Dad and the rest of you in this moment of weakness, this could be right on.

On the other hand, I understand the stress, a whole bunch of them have invited themselves to visit me in the Spring. They already know they'll be staying in a hotel. I'm thinking I won't even invite them to my place. We can see a show together, dinner, maybe a ball game. But apart from that, I'll live my life and they can figure out what they want to do for themselves. I think I will meet them at the airport and make sure they get to their hotel for the first time but I'm not going to be a full time entertainment bureau or tour guide.

(And sorry to highjack)


.

bona dea
Re: Family Friction
I would try to accommodate something they want to do if possible, but otherwise Let them know that you have plans and traditions of your own and that one of these is mass.Invite them but leave them an out if they don't want to come. Don't let them invite themselves and . then change the rules.Also,if alcohol and coffee are part of your plans, it is your house. Don't assume the worst,but have a plan just I case.


Greyfort
Re: Family Friction
nomonomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Catholic bashing isn't unique to Mormons. Sadly,
> I've heard Baptist preachers refer to the Pope as
> the "whore of Rome," and stuff like that.

True. I left the Baptist Church when the Pastor got up one day and named other churches, along with Catholics and Mormons, and said, "Don't you pat them on the back and say, "God bless you."" I was shocked and I left. Unfortunately, then I headed to the Mormon Church, silly me. LOL


anagrammy
I agree, motherwhoknows does know and is kind enough to share here with us.
Mormon manipulation includes the idea that they "care more" and you "don't care or care less," therefore, they should get to say what goes on.

You can hear this in her statement, "If you invited us to something, we would go." The implication is that you are rude to reject their invitation.

The fact is, religious worship or lack of it is as personal as sex. It is not traded back and forth like dinner parties where reciprocation is expected. Religious worship is not a social occasion. It is deeply personal and your Mormon family is intrusive to say the least.

The arrogance of assuming they will choose, they know best, and you "shouldn't mind" reveals a mindset that denies you the choice--or attempts to. This is a microcosm of their whole religion -- denial of choice. You do what we say or we make sure you regret it.

Not exactly Jesus' plan, is it?

Anagrammy

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"