Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board
by steve benson jan 2012
In another thread, poster Makurosu noted that Mormon Church president David O. McKay's statement, "No other success can compensate for failure in the home," wasn't original to McKay but, rather, was stolen from Benjamin Disraeli:
--Posted by: Makurosu
Date: January 24, 2012
11:23 AM
Subject line: The quote was lifted without credit from Benjamin Disraeli.
"No success in public life can compensate for failure in the home."
I think Theodore Roosevelt quoted Disraeli first before the quote landed on the lips of David O. McKay.
Hooray for Jesus.
_____
I replied to Makurosu, which led to an intriguing discovery by Makurosu--namely, that the McKay-cribbed quote from Disraeli (which I had mentioned and cited from "wikipedia" in a previous RfM thread back on 11 April 2011) had subsequently vanished from "wikipedia."
Hmmmmm.
Here's how Makurosu's discovery of possible TBM tampering with "wikipidia" unfolded.
In response to Makurosu's initial post, I replied:
--Posted by: steve benson
Date: January 24, 2012
12:22 PM
Subjecct line: Yes, indeed, David O. McKay had no suceess coming up with an original line. He plagiarized it . . .
McKay ripped line off that famous line from Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881), a renowned British politician, novelist and essayist who said:
"No success in public life can compensate for failure in the home."
(Simran Khurana, "Benjamin Disraeli Quotations A Collection of Benjamin Disraeli Quotations," at: http://quotations.about.com/od/stillmorefamouspeople/a/BenjaminDisrae1.htm)
You've even got Mormons admitting McKay cribbed it:
"My [LDS] church leaders repeatedly emphasized this teaching: 'No other success can compensate for failure in the home.' (Benjamin Disraeli as paraphrased by President David O. McKay)."
("Green Oasis," under "Family First, 5 July 2007, at: http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/tag/conscience/index.html)
**"No success can compensate for words that aren't my own."
_____
--Posted by: Makurosu
Date: January 24, 2012
01:04 PM
Subject line: Sounds like an epic fail for McKay in public life to me. (n/t)
_____
--Posted by: steve benson
Date: January 24, 2012
11:31 PM
Subject line: Sounds like Mormons riding the coattails of dead non-Mormons and not them giving credit . . .
If Elohim can't inspire Mormonism's false prophets with their own revealed inspirational lines, simply steal quotes from deceased Gentiles and call it your own.
To review the rip-off:
David O. McKay (1873-1970) is perhaps best known for his oft-quoted little couplet (which, come to find out, wasn't his after all):
"No other success can compensate for failure in the home."
(cited on an official LDS website, from J. E. McCullough, "Home: The Savior of Civilization" [1924], 42; Conference Report, April 1935, p. 116, at: http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.j... see also, Julie M. Smith, "Book Review: David O. McKay: Beloved Prophet," on "Times and Season: 'Truth Will Prevail,'" at: http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2252)
McKay had, in fact, purloigned that famous line from Disraeli, who said it before McKay did:
"No success in public life can compensate for failure in the home."
INTERESTING SIDENOTE: I previously found Disraeli's "no success" quote on Wikipedia, at: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
Checking back there today, however, that quote is no longer on that site.
Since one can go on to wiki and anonymously edit the articles of others, it does not seem beyond the realm of reasonable possibility that a true-believing Mormon (in an all-too-typical dishonest effort to keep McKay's mythological image as a "prophet" intact) snuck in to the wiki article and took it out.
_____
At this point, Makurosu picked up a traceable fishy scent:
--Posted by: Makurosu
Date: January 25, 2012
12:27 AM
Subject line: According to Wayback at Archive.org it disappeared sometime between July 15, 2010 and May 14, 2011.
Here's the July 15, 2010 snapshot:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100715203208/http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/B...
As you can see, the quote is in the "Unsourced" section. Only the quote has disappeared and not the Unsourced section. It wasn't moved to the "Misattributed" section either.
Here's the May 14, 2011 snapshot:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110514030631/http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/B...
_____
--Posted by: steve benson
Date: January 25, 2012
02:17 AM
Subject line: Thanks. That's interesting (and perhaps not coincidental). I posted on McKay's plagiarism of Disraeli on 11 April 2011 . . .
"'The Plagiarizing Moves On': In the Long LDS Tradition of Unoriginal & Uninspired "Prophets"--Joseph Smith, David O. Mckay, Ezra Taft Benson, Merrill J. Bateman & Bruce R. McConkie," posted by steve benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 11 April 2011, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,163604,163836,quote=1
The now-vanished Disraeli quote was on "Wikipedia" as of July 15, 2010, and read: "No success in public life can compensate for failure in the home."
http://web.archive.org/web/20100715203208/http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/B...
It was gone from the same "Wikipedia" page entirely by May 14, 2011 (33 days after my earlier RfM post appeared noting the McKay plagiarism of Disraeli):
http://web.archive.org/web/20110514030631/http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/B...
[to see and compare both "Wayback" pages, click on the word "Impatient?," located in the bottom-right corner]
(The above exchange is found in the thread, "No success outside the home....," posted by kolobian, on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 21 January 2012, 01:33 PM, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,397412)
_____
Makurso then caps it off with this "smoking gun" discovery that a pro-Mormon rewrited may well have deleted the evidence of McKay's plagiarism of Disraeli from "Wikipedia" (as noted by Makurosu later down in this thread, inserted here):
--Posted by: Makurosu
Date: January 25, 2012
10:12 AM
Subject line: It's unfortunate that there was such a wide gap in the snapshots at Archive.org.
I looked into the discussions at the wiki site to see if I could find a change log to pinpoint when the quote was deleted, but I don't know enough about the system. Maybe someone with better knowledge could look into it. It's certainly interesting.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
--Posted by: Makurosu
Date: January 25, 2012
10:25 AM
Subject line: Never mind. I found it.
Looks like you're right, Steve. The quote was deleted April 15, 2011--four days after the thread on RfM.
Here's the action history:
http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Disraeli&action=history
It was removed by user "Neutrality" with the comment "rm mis-attributions."
Here's the revision log. See line 645. No explanation given for removing that quote.
http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Disraeli&diff=1372320...
**********************************
So, in the end, some probable anonymous troll for the Mormon Cult removes from "Wikipedia's" biography article on Disraeli the quote from Disraeli--instead of removing from the record McKay's plagiarism of Disraeli's quote.
That says it all.
Thanks for your diligent detective digging, Makurosu, which raises the question:
No success at perptuating the Mormon myth can occur if evidence of possible TBM tampering with the trail of evidence is uncovered?
Heh.
forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . . .
First, you can make a drinking game with general conference talks, and unattributed quotes that they steal. I used to spot a half dozen back when I was TBM, and I always tried to rationalize it. BTW, Monson is one of the worst offenders on that front.
Second, as has been pointed out to me, we have actually had board members in the past who have admitted to having been paid by BYU to monitor this site. I imagine they have a pretty high rate of attrition though, so the Church might want to consider abandoning that program.
Don Bagley
Thanks, Steve, for the Disraeli Gears
tiny purple fishes...
FreeThinker
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . .
I used to agonize over that quote after my first marriage failed. Interesting to hear that it was derived from the writings of others! That seems to be a pattern I've seen, including the wholesale adaptation of masonic rites for the temple ceremonies.
nowI'mfound
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . .
I guess we shouldn't be surprised by this at all. TSCC has a long history of obfuscation. Although, someone should tell the GAs that they are breaking one of the cardinal rules of public speaking every time they quote someone else without at least giving some kind of verbal acknowledgement that those words aren't their own. Yes, they put the references in the footnotes, but that doesn't stop the sheeple from attributing those pilfered quotes to the GA.
jpt
They are businessmen first, running a religion as their organization.
Dealing with spreadsheets and org charts comes easier than trying to deal with actual humanity. Plagiarism and elitism are used to cover up the inadequacy, with convenient omissions of both doctrine and quotes to follow.
Makurosu
It's unfortunate that there was such a wide gap in the snapshots at Archive.org.
I looked into the discussions at the wiki site to see if I could find a change log to pinpoint when the quote was deleted, but I don't know enough about the system. Maybe someone with better knowledge could look into it. It's certainly interesting.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
Makurosu
Nevermind I found it.
Looks like you're right, Steve. The quote was deleted April 15, 2011 -- four days after the thread on RfM.
Here's the action history:
http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Disraeli&action=history
It was removed by user "Neutrality" with the comment "rm mis-attributions."
Here's the revision log. See line 645. No explanation given for removing that quote.
http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Disraeli&diff=1372320...
SL Cabbie
"Mormonites" Infesting Wiki? Surely You're Kidding... ;-)
steve benson
ding. ding. ding.
steve benson
*Here's a suggestion, "Mak": Go on to the wiki site & repost the expunged Disraeli "no success" quote, with the notation that McKay plagiarized it, & see how long that stays up. :)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2012 11:41AM by steve benson.
CA girl
One of the funniest home teaching moments
was when our HT quoted some GA and my husband said "That's not who originated that quote...the first person who said it was ______" I wish I could remember what quote the HT was trying to pass off as inspired GA wisdom but it didn't originate with that GA. The HT kept trying to insist that the quote was an inspired message from God and my husband kept saying "No, ____ said it first. The GA was just quoting him." Finally the HT said in a huff that he'd look it up when he got home but, to his credit, the next time he came he did admit DH was right and that it wasn't original Mo wisdom. I was really proud of DH for sticking to his guns but honestly, DH probably enjoyed taking the wind out that HT's sails because that guy was pretty full of himself
Makurosu
I had an experience like that when I was a kid.
An LDS friend of mine played me a song by the Osmonds that he was really excited about, and I had to burst his bubble and tell him that the music is actually "Brick House" by the Commodores. The Osmonds just wrote a very similar song and added their own clunky lyrics to it. He would not believe me, and he kept marveling at what a good song it was and how it was written by the Osmonds and how talented they are. Yes, talented at ripping off Brick House by the Commodores.
I never really understood that, why it's so important for the really obsessed Mormons to show what big shots are in their church.
anagrammy
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . .
Of course they are monitoring this board. And working hard to dilute it's influence and effect by hiring Google-influencing experts. Do you really think that many more people became interested in the mirroring LDS websites so that exmormon.org moved to fourth place from second place?
Or that almost half of all people watching TV want duplicating Mormon-dumb doctrinal channels on Roku? 25 religious channels and 10 are Mormon?
Of course not. That's your tithing at work trying to influence public opinion through media instead of prayer. Go figure.
If they really believe they have a unique pipeline to the Almighty, why not go to him to stop all these people leaving. Give them GIRD. That's how they got in, so maybe a burning in the bosom can keep them from leaving when they discover the lies they have been told and have been teaching.
Anagrammy
tiptoes
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . .
Thanks Steve and Mak.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2012 06:04PM by tiptoes.
BeenThereDunnThatExMo
I Also Could've Sworn That I Heard The LDS Inc "Proclamation On The Family" Was Ripped Off From An Earlier United Nations Similar Proclamation...Any1 Know 4 Sure???
steve benson
I think you may have that confused with Hinckley's Proclamation, "Focus on the Tithing."
suckafoo
Re: Are TBM Lurkers Reading This Board, Spotting Information That Contradicts the Mormon Myth & Then Altering Website Sources to Cover the Acts of Their Leaders? Consider This . . .
When I google Mormon topics I know to flip a few pages since their links are always on top.
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"