Anyone still going to church and just faking it?

Active but non-Believer

Littlejules Aug 2012

I was just wondering why and how people who know the church isn't true continue to go...Especially those with leadership callings. I had a hard enough time just pretending with my family! Not sure I could have pulled it off in my ward.

Nancy Rigdon
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Two reasons:

1. I'm not ready for all the guilt-laden "we won't be a family forever" drama. I have no desire to break the hearts of the people I love.

2. I can function as an agnostic exmo missionary masquerading as a TBM. During talks, lessons, or casual conversations, I "testify" of real truths. Of course, I am very careful and always prepared to defend what I say with church-approved sources.

I think there is a benefit to staying in if you can stomach it. Exmos on the inside are a great threat to TSCC. Once TBMs know you no longer believe, they are less likely to hear you. If they think you're still one of them, they will listen. Eventually, they've got so much on their proverbial shelves that it all comes crashing down.

I've known the truth for about a year and a half. There are days I want to scream "it's all a fraud" to every TBM I know, but I know that won't work. They will just respond with standard programming. But if I can get them to think, to be curious, to ask questions, then hopefully they will lead themselves to the truth.

sofia
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I tried that for a short period of time, but then I looked at my children. I was not going to raise my children on a lie, as I was. There is no way I could counter all the indoctrination they would get in Primary, Sunday School, Seminary, etc.. I could try, but they would be second class and suspect Mormons if they questioned the "brethern" and didn't serve missions. I would not have them spend so much of them time and energy on lie. I found it scary to try to raise them without the church since I'd been taught the "gentile" world was fraught with dangers. However, 30 years later, my childern are great, ethical succesful adults. I think a lot of this is due to raising them with truth. I raised them to be truly ethical. Treating people with respect and honesty. I couldn't have done that if I'd raised them in any organized religion, since they are all based on perpetuating falsehoods in order to perserve their power. My family has adjusted over time.

thinker
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Both of these stories make me so sad. This is NOT how people are supposed to live!

freeman
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Luckily for me, my wife is a JackMo. I prefer the term TBMJackMo though because although she doesn't do many of the 'don'ts', she doesn't really do any of the 'dos' either, despite believing completely. We haven't attended church in a fair few months, though if we were to (and she does speak about it from time to time) I guess I would go back to being a faker. I would never accept a calling, or a talk, or pay tithing, but would smile and nod and try not to draw any unnecessary attention to myself.

I really feel sorry for those who are so trapped they can't even confide in their husband or wife. Those who still pay tithing and fulfil callings, just to avoid confrontation.

justcallmestupid
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Luckily for me I was able to resign. I'm just not the kind of person who's able to pretend. I'm able not to shout everything I've learned from the rooftops, but I just couldn't live with the amount of cognitive dissonance required to stay in and pretend. I know a few people who have to live that way against their nature (for various individual reasons) and I see the toll it takes on them.

I feel lucky that way. I didn't have to stay when I wanted to leave.

rhgc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I faked for decades, except that from time to time I said things. Hence, I wasn't called upon to give talks, being only once in the past thirty years. I skipped tithing settlement. I avoided having TRs as much as possible. I lagged in home teaching. Out of town, I was able to give talks such as on a granddaughter's baptism - which were "different" from those usually given - being based on the Bible and Christ. My testimonies never mentioned JS, BoM, "the restoration", "the church is true" etc. When called upon in GD class, I refused to read from the BoA (shocking the teacher). He had asked if I "would like to...". Hence, a simple "no" sufficed. I felt a little constrained as 8 of our children went to BYU or BYUI.

Now I am free to tell all I know to be wrong with TSCC.

bc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I did it for a couple of years.

I was pretty sure my wife was happier not knowing and wanted her to be happy. That was true for the most part. However, coming out was the right decision for me and for us - a fake marriage wasn't doing either of us any good even if it did protect her feelings for a while. She's tough enough to take it thought and it some ways it has been a big benefit for her.

theoneandonly
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I still attend, but I am going to start going to a different church on the 2 and 4th Sunday's.

The reason I go is because my hubby is tbm, and he insists on taking the kids. I look at it two ways. One the sacrament time is time spent together as a family. Not the most enjoyable time, but still time together. And second, it gives me a chance to hear what my kids are hearing. I think I've paid closer attention since I found the truth than ever before.

I'm a tad unique in the fact that I leave right after sacrament meeting, and several people at church know I don't believe. The Bishop knows i've "lost my testimony" but I wasn't the one that told him.

It works for us, and I'm extremely envious of couples that have left together.

rainwriter
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I am still going, mostly. Part of it is because my husband and I aren't ready to have that conversation and part of it is because I need to stay in as close to full fellowship and appropriate attendance as possible so I can finish up my degree at the local church school.

Saul
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I am.
I turned atheist 10 years ago.

My wife was devastated and out of fear she asked me to fake it until our kids were grown and out of the house. At that time, our two oldest were on missions, and the next two were starting to drift. Our youngest son is now serving a mission...
She has since told me that she does not want me to fake it if I feel resentful or controlled (she can handle it now if I go inactive).

I have never stopped attending church. I as the High Priest Group Leader, and asked to be released. I went without a calling for about two years, and got the normal family questions of "So, what is your current calling?" I kept paying tithing and had a temple recommend. After two years, I accepted a calling as the fincance clerk (I had turned down callings as Gospel Docrtine teacher and Ward Missionary), and I was ok with a non-teaching assignment.

There was a time when I stopped paying tithing and before I explained why to my wife, she went and told the bishop. So the bishop took my temple recommend and I was released. He told me that I was smarter than him and he couldn't help me but he had to act. So, I went another two years without a calling and a temple recommend.

My wife was called as the RS President, and I decided to get my Temple Recommend back. I then accepted a calling as the membership clerk and have been doing that for three years.

During this time, two of our daughters went atheist, and this created a lot of strife in our marriage. Eventually, both of them had experiences that brought them back and they are now temple endowed and fully active.

My wife is now a seminary teacher. I have always supported her in her callings, and staying active (even lying to keep a temple recommend) is part of supporting her. I think she would be ok if I walked away, but our relationship is vastly better by my faking it.

A long time ago, I concluded that this issue of one partner in a temple marriage leaving the church while the other partner is not convinced boils down to "the original marriage contract." The original marriage contract was based on a commitment to remain faithful to the church. Until both partners see the fraud, the original contract holds, and the partner who sees the fraud must honor that commitment to be faithful to the church. That is why I remain active as an atheist.

I know that the concept of the original marriage contract requires that the basis (staying faithful to the church) requires that the church must be what it claims to be. If the basis is proven a fraud, then the contract is void. But I don't think it is that simple. I basically promised my wife that I would be faithful to her AND to our common faith. Being faithful to her (in her view) includes sticking with her faith because that is one of the primary reasons she married me (and I her). Until she accepts that the church is a fraud, then I feel that my original commitment must be honored.

All of our children now seem to be fully TBM. My view is that religion in general is good to the extent that it enhances well-being. It has proven to fulfill this need in the lives of my wife and children. I agree that the church is harmful in many ways (and a proven fraud), but the human brain seems to benefit from religious commitment.

I think there will come a time when I step away from faking it, but my marriage is happier and my children seem to need the church for now. This is a fascinating subject, and I am not sure I have done the right thing, but culture and extended family dynamics are powerful factors in life, and simply acting on the truth above or at the expense of those factors seems shortsighted and simple-minded.

Faking it is the least cost alternative.

My two cents...

Saul

bc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I hope your approach isn't selling your kids short. It appears at least that they are aware of your doubts.

My wife has often complained that I "changed the deal" when my beliefs changed. This really bothers me. So I'm not allowed to learn and grow after we are married? Just because I believed something that was false and harmful then I have to continue with it? I completely disagree that I agreed to that as a foundation of our marriage.

stbleaving
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I faked it for about two weeks. They were the longest 14 days of my life. I was in a leadership position and finally told them I couldn't do it anymore. (They refused to release me, but I released myself since I no longer recognized them as having authority over me.)

It's totally understandable to me that people would stay in for family reasons, especially to keep their marriages intact. But, as a single, childless person whose entire family of origin left years ago, there was no reason at all for me to remain without believing.

rhgc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Thank God my original marriage contract was different! The temple sealing is utterly false anyway. However, in my case the original marriage is the valid one! I NEVER celebrated the fake temple one.

BTW , we went to a wedding recently which used the words: "until we both shall die". Since the belief is that, being baptised in Christ, one will never truly die but one takes on immortality, the marriage is forever! Eternal marriage, without TSCC.

itsallclear
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I discovered it was all made after moving in with my parents for 9 months to save money for grad school. When I figured out the truth, I didn't see how I was going to make it 9 whole months faking it every day, but I did it. My parents are Glenn Beck, Mitt Romney loving TBMs, one of them "royal" pioneer stock, and I knew that things would get very ugly and awkward in the house if I told them the truth. I had a calling at the time, during the last two hours of church, so I stopped going to sacrament meeting and then went showed up to do my calling. I was never approached by any leaders about being absent during the first hour, and after a few times of gently asking where I was, my parents stopped asking. There were a lot of days spent biting my tongue, venting to two of my sisters, one already out and the other on her way. If it weren't for knowing that I had an "end date" to living that lie, I could easily have gone crazy living that double life.

Even though I have a hard time understanding how someone could go years faking it in the church, I also understand that each person has to figure out what is ultimately best for them and their situation, however hard it may seem. You can only hope that they eventually get their time to live an honest, free life the way they would truly like to.

davesnothere
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Saul,
Just curious…did your wife ever threaten divorce if you didn’t return to the fold? Some of your comments seemed to imply that.

Do you think she knows that you don’t actually “believe” and are just “faking it” just to maintain domestic harmony?

Do you think she’s more concerned about maintaining the image of a “faithful Mormon family” regardless of your or your children’s personal wants, desires or beliefs?

Saul
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
My wife never threatened divorce. In fact, she was more worried that I would walk away from the marriage. I am the only provider (she doesn't have a paying job) and she was afraid that my loss of faith meant a total loss of other values.

She did say that she did not sign up for being married to a man who was not a believing member. In that sense, we did talk about divorce, and I assured her that I would take care of her financially. She seemed to never make the connection that the church could possibly be the problem (an institution that marginalizes families that fall apart), but her desire to stay married was always clear and strong, for whatever reason.

She was of course concerned about the family image. The church culture and our extended family dynamics would certainly make it supremely difficult to openly deal with this situation. I don't know what it is about the slightly older generation, but they seem to deal with this eventuality in a very destructive and blind manner.

She was concerned about our kids, and when they had their own doubts, it was my fault. When they returned to faith, it was her prayers that did it, even though I convinced one daughter that she needed to accept the reality of the culture she was born into. She wanted to be respected as a doubter, and loved as a dissenter. I helped her see that this would never happen, and she would always be seen as one influenced by the adversary and the subject of intense prayer and supplication for her ultimate return. Forever. I don't know how, but she had an experience where her desire to overcome some self-destructive choices was aided by her reliance on prayer, and that re-converted her.

My wife knows that I don't believe any of it, but she constantly holds on to the hope that I will reconvert somehow. Whenever I voice my open views about doctrine, church culture, or faith in general, she is disheartended and frustrated for a day or two. I am certain that I am on the weekly prayer rolls of the temple, that I am the subject of her every prayer, and every fast sunday's starving supplication. TBM People simply handle this kind of thing in these ways. It never occurs to them (at least the vast majority of them) to ask: "my spouse is not an idiot, so I wonder how they came to this conclusion?"

She did let me know that she doesn't want me to continue faking for the sole sake of marital harmony. She said at first, it was too much for her to handle, but now she can handle me openly denying the church. It is me at this point. I still think that I don't want to give others (local ward members and extended family members) the warped satisfaction of looking down on me with pity and contempt. I would rather play their stupid game of belief in mockery of their blinded convictions. It leaves the power in my hands. That is how I see it.

So, we have conversations about her seminary lessons, and I offer insights that do not contradict my views, and they seem productive. I write letters to my missionary son that address gospel principles and he relates them to his life in ways that strengthen his testimony... for me, they simply equip him with tools to live in his environment and stay sane.

I always think (sort of like her holding onto the hope that I will reconvert somehow) that "Truth will cut its own way" and eventually the realities of the world will overwhelm the realities of religious belief. The tipping point will come. But I am starting to think that it will not come in my lifetime. But it could.

alcoa
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I'm YM President in my ward and have been faking it for some time. I skip lessons I don't like and don't offer up testimonies, especially on LDS specific ideologies. The lesson manuals are very watered down and mostly preach humanistic principles, which I'm all for. I also teach the YM to keep an open mind about things and to recognize the Church's and leaders' warts.

I don't get questioned about any of it so far as the Bishop is a really good friend of mine and harbours some NOM beliefs such as evolution and other things.

I tried discussing things with my wife a few months ago but the conversation went downhill fast. I got the whole, "You'll drive this family off a cliff" speech. We had some major stresses in our lives at the time so my timing could have been better. I think for now she's just content that I attend and participate.

I've decided to take a phased approach to winding down my Church activity. Our lives have been considerably more settled for the past few months so I'll give it a few more and start talking to my wife about my lack of belief again. I will not renew my TR when it expires in 18 months; I won't accept another calling once released from my current one, etc.

muucavwon
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
My wife felt similarly, and in my case I agreed with her. When we got married, it was under the assumption that we both were members for life, and we would raise our kids LDS. After a long time (months) thinking about it, I told my wife, "I can't continue to live with our original deal. These are my non-negotiables. What are your non-negotiables?" I feel like we basically went through another marriage commitment, but before we got there we were at the point where we were going to call the divorce lawyer.

Think about what you want out of life and be honest with your wife about it. You aren't to blame because your beliefs have changed, but I think it's best to recognize you are the one who changed. It's not good or bad, but it's the way it is. Good luck BC.

Itzpapalotl
I don't know how anyone can do this...
...and maintain their sanity. I think I lasted one whole Sunday and realized there was no way in hell I could keep up the facade. I even "bore" my testimony to see if I felt any of it was true.

Of course, I was 19, no RM hubby or kids and didn't need the approval of my family. Both of my sisters have told me that's something they really admire about me: I do whatever I want, come hell or high water. :)

bc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I recognized I was the one who changed. I recognize why that is hard for her. I don't believe that I am wrong to change or that she has a right to a year later still be holding it over my head. To expect your spouse to stay in stasis and never change once you are married is not realistic.

Saul
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Yes, my wife also has consistently framed this as me "changing the deal." At first, I strenuously countered that with the notion that the church is the one that changed the deal by withholding information and not being what it claimed to be. For some reason (that is perfectly clear to me now) this counter-argument never went anywhere.

We went through a phase where we discussed the details. At every step, her stance was typical:

1. I was taking the information out of context. Even after providing the full context, if it contradicts current manuals, it is out of context.

2. I was using false (anti-mormon) sources. Even Journal of Discourses and First Presidency letters are anti-mormon because the only way you can get them is through anti-mormon books or websites.

3. I was making mountains out of molehills. Even if JS had 33 wives, had sex with teenagers, was convicted of fraud, plagiarized masonry, made up the book of abraham, changed revelations, fabricated the interpretation of the Kinderhook plates, and conspired in covering up all of his actions, all of this has nothing to do with the church. They are simply the weaknesses of men.

4. I was arrogant to think I could be right when every leader in the church testified that it was true. Even if some of them are proven to have fabricated stories to promote faith; even if there was proven internal dissent about how to handle evidentiary problems; even if Mark Hoffman fooled all of them wholesale and they were clueless; they are all men of integrity and would not knowingly mislead members...

I even asked her once: "If there was enough evidence to really and certainly prove that the church is not true, would you want to know?" And she answered "No".

But c'mon... seriously, is it so bad to understand a culture enough to acknowledge its' flaws and still value its' social benefits?

My daughter who knows most about my atheist stance once called me an anthropologist member; one who stays inside the culture more to observe than to participate. One who understands the culture enough to know that there is no balanced existence without participation. She doesn't like me in the temple or participating in the blessing of her children, but I do it anyway, because I consider myself worthy.

In the end, it only bothers me when I think about how utterly stupid it all is. But sometimes you can't fix stupid.

bc
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I salute you for what you have done and are doing. It doesn't sound to me like you are faking it.

sofia
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
See I don't see the social aspect of the church as a positive. I was born and raised in that, trying to be their version of the perfect woman. Attending all the meetings, holding all the callings, while still doing all my school work and getting the perfect grades. Plus being indoctrinated in the narrow-minded views of the church. The members can be very judgemental of any deviation from what they considered to be the right path. It may be easier to live that in Utah, try to do it in the Mission Field. It means early morning Seminary, weird styles of dress, and doctrines that nobody at school understands. Yet you make these sacrifices because you believe it is "true." If it's a lie, why do it? In fact the narrow-minded judging of homosexuals, atheists, and anyone else who is the least bit different is harmful. Plus, the church's programs keep you so busy you don't have time to devote to things that are important. I understand that some of you are making compromises to save a marriage, my temple marriage was doomed anyhow. In my opinion your spouse is asking you to make a Faustian bargain.

rationalguy
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I still go sometimes and am not letting on about the depths of my depraved, evil apostasy to neighbors and family. They just think I'm a slacker. Actually, I'm a New Atheist who thinks we'd be better off without any religion at all!

sofia
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
See I don't see the social aspect of the church as a positive. I was born and raised in that, trying to be their version of the perfect woman. Attending all the meetings, holding all the callings, while still doing all my school work and getting the perfect grades. Plus being indoctrinated in the narrow-minded views of the church. The members can be very judgemental of any deviation from what they considered to be the right path. It may be easier to live that in Utah, try to do it in the Mission Field. It means early morning Seminary, weird styles of dress, and doctrines that nobody at school understands. Yet you make these sacrifices because you believe it is "true." If it's a lie, why do it? In fact the narrow-minded judging of homosexuals, atheists, and anyone else who is the least bit different is harmful. Plus, the church's programs keep you so busy you don't have time to devote to things that are important. I understand that some of you are making a compromise to save your marriage. My temple marriage was doomed anyhow. However, in my opinion your spouses are asking you to make a Faustian bargain. Sad.

dogeatdog
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I'm with Itzpapalotl - I just couldn't do it. I went on and off for 2-3 months after I knew it wasn't true and I was so crabby about it, totally disheartened, unhappy while there, and it was driving me crazy! I felt like I was living a lie, giving up my integrity and forcing myself to be around people and an institution that were making my skin crawl.

I have a hard time bearing understanding toward those who remain in the Church even though they know it's not true and aren't even trying to make some changes from the inside. If they are trying to make changes from the inside, more power to them! I thought for awhile that I might be able to go that route, and then realize I could NOT raise my daughter in the Church, and also that I couldn't fake it - I don't have a very good poker face.

Lastly, it dawned on me that I wanted to live my most authentic life, and remaining in the Church was definitely NOT me being my most authentic self.

liberated brit
Re: I don't know how anyone can do this...
I lasted a few weeks. I was teaching in Sunday School and just like you bore a testimony. What really shocked me was how easily it slipped out - it was like being on auto-pilot. I realised I was completely brainwashed and needed to get out. I handed in my manuals and said I couldn't do it any more.

For those who feel the need to stay in, then I wish them the best, but for me, the only way was out.

twojedis
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
This is why my DH decided to come out and tell me the truth. Our oldest of 5 sons was getting married (civil ceremony in deference to his fiancée's parents). DH could see what was coming down the line with the rest of the sons, missions, temple marriages, blessings, baptisms, etc. He had been pretending for two years and couldn't do it any more. That was a month ago. I'm so glad he did what he did.

John Wesley
I went through BYU....
...a mission, a temple marriage, and years of church activity (all Bishopric positions and Stake High Council)...wanting to believe it was true, trying to believe it was true, but always harboring doubts. The internal dissonance finally became intolerable to me, and I finally had to confess my non-belief to my wife, my parents, and the Bishop. Fortunately, my wife (whom I met at BYU) eventually came around to my reasoning (after about a year), and we both left Mormonism together. The feeling of liberation and freedom was unbelievable.

e2
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
In biology, you learn that some butterflies hide their colors to avoid predators, while some butterflies show their true colors (even though that can come at a significant price [ie: predation (atheists aren't too popular, right?)]).

I seem to be wired to say what makes the most rational sense - not form my opinion based what others believe or what is the most popular. It's probably in my genes.

tensolator
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I think a lot of us are faking it.

SayHi2Kolob4Me
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Awesome response! I couldnt keep going to church anymore. It made me physically ill. However My goal with my parents was to slip in bits of info here and there, hoping to do just what you described.

Unfortunately, I live with my parents who were trying to force my kids to church. So, I had to "come out" to them. And yes, standard programming proceeded to spew forth. Now my mom is a self appointed missionary on Facebook.

It's all so awkward and uncomfortable since pretty much all they talk about is church related and as I sit there in silence I know they're judging my thoughts. Lol. I wish I could've remained covert until I moved out but that is not the way it worked out for me.

I'm glad there are people like you who can stomach it and infiltrate the ward house.

Keep up the good work.

dajeffman
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
I have to fake it.

There is no way I'm going to tell my parents (I'm 17) what I've found, until I can get out, and be independent. Life will be a living hell. Well, it kinda already is. However, hurting tscc from the inside is what I live for now, and ill do it by getting my friends to think for once in their lives.

I cannot wait until i'm in college, and have a solid path to follow. Not doing anything stupid 'till i can leave for good.

sabazius
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
Still have to go (17 as well) and it is truly a living hell. I never had a panic attack in my life before i learned the truth, now its nearly a weekly experience at church. I've told my parents and unlike a lot of other parents, they didn't even blink. All they said was that it was my choice but as long as I lived under their roof I have to go to church and seminary.

Faking it sucks but at least I have wi-fi and can read RfM while i'm in class.

Been There and Back
Re: Anyone still going to church and just faking it?
A post in Short Topics describes Mormonism as a business and one of the tricks to keep clients in line goes like this:

"You hold hostage a family's togetherness in the hereafter, and their closeness here."

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon392.htm

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"